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Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

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Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#421
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but you have to recall there was the chip shortage before and during the pandemic. Given Apple's reliance on HW sales, it would be foolish to ramp up hiring when you can't obtain the materials for your products. While at the same time people moved to buying everything online and having Teams/Zoom calls for all work and school. The situation was just very different for Apple vs Amazon/Google/Microsoft/Z…

There was a chip shortage for old machines, bigger fabrication sizes, and because car manufacturers and others stupidly canceled their contracts with chip makers, anticipating a downturn when instead there was a huge boom in demand. Apple was largely unaffected by this because they are first in line for new fabrication processes, did not cancel their existing chip orders, and uses mostly modern fabs anyway, not barga…

I don’t work at Apple, but Cook at least portrayed there was impact to Apple publicly.

See https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-imac-and-ipad-producti....

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#422
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess it's strange to me how the Fed can pump every asset class to the moon, force companies to over hire to meet demand, and cause a huge inflationary problem for consumers There were no consumer inflation issues for the past decade. It took a once in a life time pandemic supply shock to cause those issues. You're being unfair. It's easy to blame the fed for all your problems. The fact is inflation was stable an…

> It's easy to say "oh they should've raised rates in 2017 or 2014" in 2022. It was much harder to say back then. it's funny that you brought this up unprompted because this is the obvious counterargument - the fed really really should have been doing moderate tightening of the interest rate in 2017-2018-2019 and everybody knows it, even you. Everyone said it too, I completely do not get your "it was much harder to s…

There were plenty of times to raise rates even before the Trump administration. But there were no major negative impacts until the COVID19 pandemic.

The point is it's easy for us to say this now. Had the pandemic not occurred we'd maybe still be in the position we were in 2019. You can argue for resiliency but you can't time the market. You could argue rates should've been raised in 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19. If you optimize too much for resiliency, then you overcorrect and cause recessions, which no one wants. And there'd be people just like you parroting how "i told you they shouldn't have raised rates!"

Now let's look at the facts. Despite sharp rate increases, the economy still grew last quarter, inflation has is normalizing, and the job market outside of tech is still robust. Frankly, hard to think of a better outcome. The asset inflation prior to COVID19 was slightly problematic. But the inflation we face now has less to do with that and more to do with demographic shifts and larger societal changes that needed a spark to begin.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it helps, but what I've done when turning down promotions is to be sure they know that I'm pleased and honored by the offer and value it. And that the reason I'm turning it down is because I feel I can provide the greatest value to the company in the position I'm currently in. All of which is true, and phrases things so they know you're not turning your nose up at anything and that you have the compan…

Seems like a good idea, but with the risk that if you say you're choosing to stay "for the company" then the company can insist that actually it's better for them if you go to the new role. If you say it's about your family situation, then it's harder for them to insist.

Well, that's the sort of risk assessment that only you can make. My experience has been that a company won't do that, but you know yours better than I do.

But if I were to work at a place where I felt similarly, I would absolutely be looking for a job elsewhere.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I turn down promotions. A promotion (especially to a management position) means another step toward the sort of work I don't enjoy and don't want to do.

You have to be careful how you do it. I was punished for turning it down. I was told that all I needed to do was work one extra hour per day (in addition to normal support, elevation, etc). Why would I take a position with higher expectations for a 7% raise and a 13% increase in hours - a rate cut? Plus, if I'm a high performer in my current role I should be getting bigger bonuses. I have a skip level where the depar…

I think I have the same type of brain as you. I say things all the time which to me are just obvious logic. And the reaction sometimes has been extremely bad.

I realized my “logic” brain scares the crap out of normies. I learned to ask other people for help with complex negotiations involving politics and emotion.

I realized I don’t process information the same as most people and this has been at the root of numerous career mistakes. Some of those mistakes were extremely damaging.

I recommend learning to run your decision making past people who are better in these areas than you. When it is a political issue especially. If you know you are not great at politics, you need to improve your decision making and avoid this problem in the future.

I learned after YEARS of stepping on landmines accidentally to be far more careful navigating internal politics. The costs of getting it wrong are devastating.

For example. If you indeed did the math and calculated (logically and truthfully) that management was a +7% increase in pay for a +13% increase in work that’s fine.

But if you used those exact words and numbers to a superior; they will view that as arrogant, selfish and entitled. Because their view is you should want to be the best you can be for the company and make a personal sacrifice to show you want the company to do well. That is basic “salary man 101” and doing the opposite of that (analyzing the exact math) is putting a target on your back as a “free thinking non team player individualist.” It’s career lethal to get that label

I suspect you may have a lot more Aspergers than you realize. Or maybe it’s a generational culture thing. And the most irritating thing about people who are on the spectrum is the refusal to introspect and self reflect about it.

I tried to coach a co worker who was similar. Dude was angering everyone. All the time. He didn’t want to hear that he had a problem.

I strongly recommend developing friends you can run these decisions by. It was literally a life saver for me. I realized I was like a blind person wandering around with a cane when it came to navigating politics and needed watch dogs who could analyze the situation for me so I didn’t blow my leg off.

In terms of this situation. It sounds like you did not prepare well for a long term career discussion. That is an extreme red flag. And didn’t take it seriously that a higher level authority was asking you for your plan.

You were being checked on whether you have a future at the organization. You failed.

I have failed these tests myself. I was late to a critical call with a VP. It ended my career. It showed lack of care or preparation and a lack of respect.

One late meeting ended my career.

I can’t blame you. If you are hyper logical in your mind you we’re probably just telling them that “2+2=4.”

The entire political career metagame that normies play does not have anything to do with logic. I personally don’t like it either.

It may also be generational. A GenZ who plans to coast and just get a paycheck while turning in a solid 30% effort might have given the same answer you did.

Some Aspergers dude wouldn’t know that this is career ending as an impression to give: “my plan is to do the minimum ser.” Is what your skip level hears.

It wasn’t what you said it was what they heard.

“I love the company and support you and want to grow into doing more, I’m so optimistic of the future.” That’s what they want to hear.

If you want to coast, at least say what I just said and give that impression. And you can probably carve out a way to mostly get left alone and negotiate your wants and workload. Or negotiate a project that allows you to coast. But holy shit don’t start doing comparative math on working hours versus pay.

Your company might not be doing well. If you don’t know that (they might not even tell you), they may really have needed you to do more.

I recommend working on your likability also.

Suspect your delivery and demeanor are just labeling you as an Aspergers robot.

Companies will tolerate incompetent, lazy, shiftless, unambitious workers who are positive, pleasant, non threatening, supportive, not “too smart,” keep their mouths shut, not crafty or aggressive. They will tolerate that forever. In fact they love it.

I suspect your demeanor and likability are bad. It starts with how you enter every discussion. Keep things light and funny. Never criticize, complain, bicker over hours or workloads.

Negotiate for what you want and have a clear plan and do it lightly and in a gentle way and watch the demeanor of those around you.

Doing Aspergers math on how much work they want you to do versus how much work you feel like doing: Holy shit. Don’t make that mistake again. That was me. Get a clue, learn to softened and likable. Don’t be logical. They hate that and they will hate you.

Be optimistic and clueless and get your job done.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is 5% "reasonable?" Who determines that? That's not something up for a vote -- that's up to the market. If you ask Apple themselves to split the payment processing from the hosting and 'marketing', they claim it's 3% and 27%. So if you could use their payment processing by itself, that would put you at $485k before server costs, not $419k. So you can have very nice servers and over a third more revenue. You'll…

> So if you could use their payment processing by itself, that would put you at $485k before server costs, not $419k. So you can have very nice servers and over a third more revenue. Most companies don't do their own payment processing. They have accounts with companies that provide merchant services (e.g. WorldPay, Ayden, various investment banks) under specially negotiated contracts. These contracts would cover con…

You're ignoring my point almost entirely. I'm sorry for not adding "the equivalent of their payment processing". If Apple can do it for 3%, I'm sure other companies could do it for 4.5%, and the rest of my argument doesn't change at all.

Though I do have an answer to "why"! It's because Apple claims they want to be in charge of payments to protect their users. Even if we ignore the "charge slightly more and make tons of money" plan.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#427
post #397
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have run a company for zero profit and it can still be a benefit to society, so no the "purpose of a company is to make profit" is not necessarily true. "If we want to know what a business is, we have to start with its purpose. And the purpose must lie outside the business itself. In fact, it must lie in society, since a business enterprise is an organ of society. There is only one valid definition of busines…

> You can have run a company for zero profit and it can still be a benefit to society, so no the "purpose of a company is to make profit" is not necessarily true. On one hand, fair. Technically correct. On the other hand basically all laymen use the word "company" to mean for-profit corporation, and pretty much everyone who wants to talk about corporations that are designed not to make a profit use the term "non-prof…

> I think you've ignored the context in which the comment was made.

I would argue you did. The parent was being pedantic about the saying "revenue solves everything" and tried to make seem as if profit is the be-end-all. My overall point is still consistent with Drucker's "the purpose of a company is to create customers". If you're in a bull market and you hire like crazy to achieve the creation of customers, then hiring like crazy is NOT WRONG.

> On the other hand basically all laymen use the word "company" to mean for-profit corporation

P.S. - Amazon ran without profit for 10 years. Did we magically call them a non-profit for 10 years and then a company thereafter?

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely wrong. you have yet to cite a law of physics or some biological fact that will prevent this from being a reality. Ie you’re making really terrible assumptions based on lack of knowledge. > A pair of galsses with 46 degree field of view that you need to connect with a cable to the actual device where all the processing and control happens. Yes, and it’s shipped and will continue to be improved throu…

> We know more about the Apple device through patent filings and leaks. No you don't. Apple routinely files hundreds of patents (any major company does that). It doesn't mean those patents will end up as a shippable product. All you know is the never ending rumor mill. > these devices are already real and shipped. Of course they are not > As for batteries, that’s been solved 1-2 years ago. Of course they haven't. The…

> Apple routinely files hundreds of patents (any major company does that). It doesn't mean those patents will end up as a shippable product.

Analysts have a good track record of predicting what Apple is about to release including specs. Stop pretending that it hasn’t happened on a regular basis over the years.

> Of course they are not

No. We have AR and VR devices that have shipped and sold in the millions. Those are facts whether or you decide to accept them.

> Of course they haven't. There's literally no battery + cpu + gpu tech that you can put in an AR device lightweight enough for extended use.

It already has existed in the form of 3rd party magnetically switchable batteries. It’s been selling on Amazon for at least two years now. As for the headset capable of doing this, 10-20 million have already been sold. Just because you’re not aware of it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

> The rest are bulky and heavy. Because you cannot bullshit your way out of physics and biology by pretending "this has been solved".

Waiting for incremental improvements to happen is very different from being impossible to do. This is not a hard concept to understand. Again, these are shipped devices and not vaporware. You keep claiming that some law of physics or biology makes this impossible to accomplish yet you still can’t name a specific law that prohibits progress ie you’re full of it

> There's objective reality and there's wishful thinking

Yeah there’s wishful thinking on your part pretending that you’re not ignorant of the subject, but the facts are in my side.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#429
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where this logic irritates me the most is in the housing market. Similarly to those who blame companies for over hiring to meet pandemic demand, I've seen some people suggest the average home buyer was being reckless for buying a home during the pandemic, because "they brought the bubble!" I guess it's strange to me how the Fed can pump every asset class to the moon, force companies to over hire to meet demand, and c…

> I guess it's strange to me how the Fed can pump every asset class to the moon, force companies to over hire to meet demand, and cause a huge inflationary problem for consumers There were no consumer inflation issues for the past decade. It took a once in a life time pandemic supply shock to cause those issues. You're being unfair. It's easy to blame the fed for all your problems. The fact is inflation was stable an…

> There were no consumer inflation issues for the past decade. It took a once in a life time pandemic supply shock to cause those issues. You're being unfair.

Not really... Inflation began spiking in late 2020 / early 2021. It was completely foreseeable given how strong economic demand was and how quickly CPI was raising that inflation would be high in 2021. When CPI shot past 2% the Fed basically told businesses and investors not to worry about rates and that they were going to allow inflation to run hot and stimulate demand.

What you're saying suggests you don't understand what happen. Inflation surprised no one in 2021 the Fed was actively encouraging it for months while it was well beyond 2%. The Fed was basically telling people that if they had cash in the bank that they would continue to erode its value through inflation.

This is why businesses were scrambling to spend and there was high demand for hard assets like real estate. Its simple asset allocation. If you believe your cash is going to have negative real yields for the foreseeable future then you need to get out of cash and buy stuff which can benefit from the economic demand ASAP.

> The fact is inflation was stable and the economy was just fine prior to the COVID19 pandemic. I don't think any amount of rate raises prior to 2020 would have had any appreciable impact on what we're facing now.

I'm actually of the opinion that monetary policy was appropriate prior to 2020. I'm not someone who believes interest rates have been too low since the GFC although I'm aware this is a common talking point of people critical of the Fed.

The way I see it the Fed has a duty to keep inflation at their 2% target. The supportive monetary policy prior to 2020 was in pursuit of this goal and therefore appropriate imo so long as we care about that 2%. I disagree with what they did in 2021 and beyond precisely because they didn't do their job and disregarded their 2% inflation target in pursuit of keeping demand high.

> Most of these layoffs are happening in the tech sector. Others are healthy. This isn't an economy wide problem yet. It's hard to not blame the individual companies for poor management.

It's a tech problem for a reason though. Tech is naturally more interest rate sensitive than other sectors due to the funding and growth dynamics, but other rate sensitive sectors like real estate are also suffering. But the largest reason tech over invested in 2021 was because demand that was being pumped into the economy was largely being pushed into tech because of lockdowns.

I'm also of the opinion this will spread into the broader economy later this year and the full cost of the Feds mistake has not yet been felt.

> The fact is if you want what you want and want it now, and everyone else does, you have to pay.

I guess I don't really understand what you're saying. I mean do you think it was just all a coincidence or something? Why do you think people and business all suddenly wanted to buy things at the same time? Can you think of any reason why that might of happened?

Maybe people's cash was being erode by negative real yields? Maybe the government was stimulating demand via QE and fiscal stimulus? Maybe the Fed was buying hundreds of billions of dollars of assets while inflation was running above 2%? Maybe the central bank was explicitly telling people that they would continue to erode their purchasing power and couldn't give a damn about their inflation target?

Honestly it's hard for me to even understand how someone can even blame stock investors, crypto investors, real estate investors, tech companies, bond investors, consumers, etc all for being too greedy without even questioning why they were all so suddenly so greedy at exactly the same time.

> It's easy to say "oh they should've raised rates in 2017 or 2014" in 2022. It was much harder to say back then.

As I mentioned, this is opposite to the position I hold. Rates prior to 2020 were mostly appropriate imo and if anything I believe monetary policy should have been more accommodative.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#430
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess it's strange to me how the Fed can pump every asset class to the moon, force companies to over hire to meet demand, and cause a huge inflationary problem for consumers There were no consumer inflation issues for the past decade. It took a once in a life time pandemic supply shock to cause those issues. You're being unfair. It's easy to blame the fed for all your problems. The fact is inflation was stable an…

> There were no consumer inflation issues for the past decade. It took a once in a life time pandemic supply shock to cause those issues. You're being unfair. Not really... Inflation began spiking in late 2020 / early 2021. It was completely foreseeable given how strong economic demand was and how quickly CPI was raising that inflation would be high in 2021. When CPI shot past 2% the Fed basically told businesses and…

It's easy to say now change policy in the throes of the COVID pandemic. But in reality this move would've created economic shock on top of a supply shock and during a public health crisis. That simply isn't sound and is extremely reactive. And it's hard to say this would've had any impact at all on inflation, which was tied to factors external to fed policy.

The fed should be cautious by making any changes. I believe the fact they didn't rush to judgement has led to a much better than normal situation.

> Inflation began spiking in late 2020 / early 2021.

If by late 2020 / early 2021 you mean April (Q2), then sure. Pretty broad range there when there wasn't spikes in inflation until then.

20/20 in hindsight. A lot of people saying they should've done X or Y. It's easy to say that from behind the desk commenting on HN, all due respect.

> I'm also of the opinion this will spread into the broader economy later this year and the full cost of the Feds mistake has not yet been felt.

I've been hearing this all year from certain political entities. Maybe your blind squirrel will find a nut this year, but so far all the doomsday predictions have continually gotten pushed back. The job market is extremely strong, growth was still strong. If we go into a slight recession, I have to ask, so what?

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