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Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

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Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#381

Post by bigDinosaur »

elbigbad wrote: post #111
bitschubser_ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a very US centric view and problem... in other countries lower income does not correlate with no access to local grocery shopping school etc... a german newspaper did a great income analysis of german cities [1]. You really see the differentiation in income, but if you overlay (at least for the cities I looked at) it with a map even in the low income neighborhood you get decent grocery shopping in walking dis…

The article is about Seattle, which is currently a US city, so imho it’s reasonable to have a US-centric view of the problem.

I imagine the point is that what happens in the US isn't some inevitable state of things, it's the choices of US citizens, and they could look abroad to see counterexamples to their assumptions.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#382

Post by mulmen »

Gigachad wrote: post #347
mulmen wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Washington takes privacy and the presumption of innocence seriously. You can read the relevant state law here: https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.63.170 . The cameras can't take pictures of the driver or occupants and court time is accrued when anyone other than the registered owner committed the infraction: (f) Automated traffic safety cameras may only take pictures of the vehicle and vehicle license p…

Seems like the solution here would be to station an officer at each major intersection permanently, and to fund it, take the operational cost and divide it out to those fined. So say it cost $100,000 for the day and 100 fines were given out, the fines are $1,000 each. This scales infinitely.

A ruinously expensive ticket is likely an effective deterrent. So what do you do when this works and you get zero dollars to fund all those traffic cops because nobody ran any red lights?

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#383

Post by vineyardmike »

sandworm101 wrote: post #165
com2kid wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The way “supermarkets” are in the US, I don’t WANT to be a 15 minute walk from one. They are usually surrounded by a mile of blacktop and concrete, for all the drive-in shoppers in the front and all the trucks offloading goods or picking up deliveries in the back. I live in a walkable Seattle neighborhood. Accordingly, the "supermarkets" are not quite the mega-large stores they are in other parts of the city, and t…

>> ...despite living walking distance to 3 grocery stores, I still typically drive a mile away to a larger store because... A mobile consumer base, people with cars that can travel to potentially hundreds of retail options, is a backbone of American competition. Like cars or not, they empower consumers to defeat local monopolies. The next stage, pickup trucks, then empowers retailers to sell large products (appliance…

> The next stage, pickup trucks, then empowers retailers to sell large products (appliances)

Most people buy appliance at most once a decade. There’s a reason the bed of trucks have shrunk while cabs have grow over the years: most people don’t need trucks. The harm pickup trucks cause society has to be worse than this empowerment.

Pickups are way more dangerous in an accident, way more likely to get in an accident, and require way more fuel to power. You’d have to empower a lot of appliance sales before this can even come close to balancing out.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#384

Post by vineyardmike »

sandworm101 wrote: post #236
Zagill wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing about cars specifically enables this. Building cities so that you have to drive to travel any significant distance, however, guarantees that you need a car to take advantage of competitive pricing. But that's self-apparent... Building dense cities that can be accessed by bike and on foot would have the same effect. Spreading out your city so that what could be a 15 minute walk is now a 15 minute drive isn't a…

But where is the calculation for all the effort to distribute food to all those tiny shops? It is comes in via truck/van often at night. Central large stores, with customers buying in bulk, means fewer trips. The total carbon/energy in the system isn't as simple as saying "walking is better". It may be that a monthly trip to fill a pickup with food is more green than thirty daily trips to the corner shop by foot. Env…

> It may be that a monthly trip to fill a pickup with food is more green than thirty daily trips to the corner shop by foot

Not if that family uses that same truck for commuting every day or for trips to the pharmacy or movie theater or whatever.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#385

Post by LeanderK »

duxup wrote: post #2

I like the idea of walking 15 minutes to get all the things. But man when I think of the costs involved in making sure there is a High School (in the US they tend to be large and draw from a distance) within 15 minutes of everywhere (no small cost to drop in a high school somewhere), or plop down a grocery store in a neighborhood ... that sounds both super expensive and politically difficult, and for some good reason…

> or plop down a grocery store in a neighborhood ... that sounds both super expensive and politically difficult, and for some good reasons. Heck I'd be annoyed if someone decides "Sorry we're rezoning / creating an incentive to build a restaurant in the plot next to you, not enough restaurants nearby. Good luck..."

> Heck I'd be annoyed if someone decides "Sorry we're rezoning / creating an incentive to build a restaurant in the plot next to you, not enough restaurants nearby. Good luck..."

I don't get this. Isn't a restaurant at the corner great? Why would you be annoyed? I like living next to a restaurants. It increases your quality of live I think, you can literally just swing by if you feel like it and after a while you get to know the owner and develop a personal relationship. It really makes this place more my home I think, I always greet them and have a quick chat, and brings some life to the street. Of course, there's a question of the size but that can be dealt with. A grocery store is another thing because often they tend to be really big, but I think often suitable places can be found. But I think the supermarkets in mind are small, not a giant supermarket. Something where you can get most of your stuff but don't really have a variety to choose from, something where you swing by because you forgot your eggs.

I don't live in the US so I am really unsure why that's so bad. I don't think living 15 minutes to a Walmart (I picture them to be massive) is meant.

I assume, of course, that you're living somewhere somewhat suitable. But we're talking about living in seattle, so I assume it's ok.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#386

Post by LeanderK »

danny_codes wrote: post #368
blakesterz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking the same thing. This doesn't seem like it's a realistic goal, as much as I do really like the idea. 15 minutes of walking isn't really much in terms of feet or meters or however you want to measure it. 15 minutes of biking time, that's better. I guess I live in a "15 Minute Area" if you only count the bike time. Maybe more like 20 if you count the time I end up sitting at intersections?

Better bike infrastructure really unlocks a lot of potential. With good bike infrastructure, rides of ~30 minutes are quite comfortable, which is a distance of about 4 miles. IMO a well-designed city could easily keep all necessary amenities in that range.

or with a well designed bike infrastructure a 15 minute walk would become a 5 minute bike ride :) I wouldn't want to bike 30 minutes just to buy a few groceries.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#387

Post by LeanderK »

ghaff wrote: post #21
logifail wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a High School (This is going to sound like we're playing Sim City 2000) but don't forget to add a hospital (a proper one, with an emergency room), a fire station, a police station... > a grocery store Are there many neighbourhoods which don't already have some kind of grocery store?

It probably depends on what you mean by "grocery store." In dense urban areas, bodegas, chain convenience stores, and pharmacies with a small grocery section are pretty plentiful. Supermarkets a lot less so. That's probably part of a shift over time. In general, we probably have more relatively large but spread out businesses than little mom and pop places on every corner. (This is sort of a US comment. There seem to…

In europe, you often have mid to normal-sized supermarkets near public transit since a lot want to grab a few groceries after work.

I wonder what "chain convenience stores" are...are they more geared towards snacks? Mid-sized supermarkets are all over the cities in europe I would say. You usually visit a bigger supermarket once a week, but you can get everything in the smaller ones, from fruits and vegetables to pasta. They are really there to fulfil your everyday needs and you don't strictly need to visit a bigger one. Many don't because it's so convenient, but they tend to be a bit more expensive.

Mid-sized supermarkets are part of my everyday life and I wonder why they are not more common in the US.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#388

Post by lazyasciiart »

Dig1t wrote: post #343
lazyasciiart wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a congestion charge. Here’s a great link from your article: READ MORE: Council staff abused after conspiracists circulate fake news about traffic filters

Well, the article is framed in terms of creating 15 minute neighborhoods: "ROAD blocks stopping most motorists from driving through Oxford city centre will divide the city into six "15 minute" neighbourhoods, a county council travel chief has said." I'm not abusing anyone, and I'm not saying there's a secret cabal trying to control the world. I'm just saying this makes me uneasy because it is reducing freedoms.

It is not reducing freedoms any more than a toll booth does. They are not road blocks. This is related to 15 minute cities exactly as much as it’s related to pedestrian crossings. It is making you uneasy because you are reading conspiracies and lies and believing them.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#389

Post by fleekonpoint »

yayadarsh wrote: post #250
muricula wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually a parking lot above the QFC. There's also a solid ramen place and a drugstore up there.

I assume they are talking about the other QFC on Broadway (north of the Pike St one)

That one closed about a year back unfortunately.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#390

Post by insane_dreamer »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #375
ahoy wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Retail theft as a new/major issue is mostly a lie, told by corporations and parroted by the media who love a crimewave story, even if its fabricated. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/06/business/walgreens-shopli...

No it’s not. My local grocery store has incidents hourly, heck, you can get lucky and see it for yourself where some guy just walks out with a basket full of stuff (security can’t really stop them given liability). If it were fabricated, we wouldn’t see it happen in person so much.

> (security can’t really stop them given liability)

what does this mean? Isn't that the whole point of security?

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