Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#401

Post by simonh » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 4:45 AM UTC

hailwren wrote: post #383

simonh wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic iPads don’t have laminated displays, are smaller, heavier and come with older CPUs and less memory. So the decision for me is between iPad Air and Pro. Frankly which makes the best buy varies. My current iPad is an M1 Pro that’s just over a year old, but my brother bought one last summer and got an Air, and if I’d been buying one then I’d have done the same. Sometimes it comes down to which was refreshed mo…

Yeah, I mean you’ve more or less reiterated what I said. The hardware is very nice. And if you play a game where you calculate the hardware/$, the iPad pro makes sense. When you really ask yourself what workload you’re doing on an iPad that requires anything more than an A16 is … I think you’ll find there isn’t much. You’re limited to iPad apps. You can’t even install a browser that isn’t a safari skin. Multitasking…

For something that’s useless, I get an incredible amount of use out of it. Honestly a pro is probably overkill for me, but I use my iPad a ton every day. I use multitasking a fair bit. I’m actually typing this in a floating browser panel on top of Teams. iPads last seemingly forever, my hand me down iPad 2 was being used by a relative and got retired a few months ago. So I go for the best experience because multiplied by the use I get out of it, it’s worth it.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#402

Post by andsoitis » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 4:46 AM UTC

hailwren wrote: post #233

simonh wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, people have been lamenting the poor quality of Apple software and how much better it was in the old days since I got my first Mac in 2007, at least that's when I became aware of the complaints. If it was really on a substantial continual down trend from then, by now nothing would work at all. Apple continues to invest massively in software, that means a ton of new code, which means a ton of new bugs. Yo…

Ehh, Apple has some big misses. Their software objectively sucks. OS X has gotten buggier and slower over the years. I traded “it just works” for the speed and customization of linux years ago and would _really_ like the benefits of Apple hardware but can’t bite the bullet on Apple software (Asahi isn’t in a good enough spot yet to be my primary computer imo). The iPad pro line is a travesty. IPadOS is horrible, Appl…

> OS X has gotten buggier and slower over the years. I traded “it just works” for the speed and customization of linux years ago

If you have been using Linux for years, how come you've been experiencing increasing number of OS X bugs and performance degradation? I thought you've been running Linux for years?

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#403

Post by andsoitis » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 4:47 AM UTC

smm11 wrote: post #176

simonh wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, people have been lamenting the poor quality of Apple software and how much better it was in the old days since I got my first Mac in 2007, at least that's when I became aware of the complaints. If it was really on a substantial continual down trend from then, by now nothing would work at all. Apple continues to invest massively in software, that means a ton of new code, which means a ton of new bugs. Yo…

It was a very dark era for Apple, but the Power Computing years were the best time to be an Apple fanboy IMO. You had commodity firebreathing PC hardware running OS 8 better than Macs did, more ports and connectivity, the software was best-in-class, and this was the era with no spyware, telemetry and all the BS we face now. And yes, I was still buying legit Macs and software, and a lot of stock when it was at $11. It…

> no spyware

What spyware is on your modern Mac?

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#404

Post by paulmd » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 4:48 AM UTC

yunwal wrote: post #328

flangola7 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's the last revolutionary consumer technology that has come out of Apple? The original successful Macs, the iPod, the iPhone, iTunes, those were all under Jobs.

You might dismiss it, but for me AirPods are the biggest QOL improvement from tech since smartphones. Bluetooth headphones were atrociously hard to use before them.

apple's bluetooth experience is so refined it's practically revolutionary in general. I used to fight bluetooth mouse/keyboard problems all the damn time, I'd have keyboards that suddenly stopped responding or would repeat a key over and over again, mice that would suddenly scroll like an inch at a time, etc. The best experiences were on an Intel NUC that might only have an issue once a day or a couple times a week, but it still was occasionally temperamental and barring that every single other platform I've used ranged somewhere between "highly flaky" and "completely unusable". When it's happening multiple times per day it's just not acceptable.

even a dell latitude business laptop is something else I'd consider that should probably be close to the intel nuc level of "mostly works with minimal flakiness" but it flatly was not... and the intel NUC was extremely flaky compared to everything apple I've used. And everything besides the NUC that used Intel wireless chipsets was a complete disaster that was basically unusable. When I have to put a USB bluetooth adapter in my B550 motherboard to get something that works... yeah.

know what I haven't had to fuck with since getting an intel macbook for work, and a M1 MBA for around the home? bluetooth problems. somehow apple can figure it out, even when using that same flaky intel hardware. nowadays I can just reliably assume that any connection problem means my peripheral has a dead battery for some reason.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#405

Post by andsoitis » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 4:51 AM UTC

brookst wrote: post #303

scarface74 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Apple is doomed any day now”. That’s been the narrative for over 40 years. So which customers aren’t satisfied? The people on HN that want to run Linux on the Apple Watch?

Look, if Apple just made the watch open source with fully-user-upgradable parts and modular CPU + display + battery, and a command line interface, they would reach dozens of new customers.

> dozens

Even if there are 7 dozen extra customers, that's maximum (looks up price of most expensive Apple Watch) of 7 * 12 * $799 = $67k.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#406

Post by raincom » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 4:59 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #43

Apple is known for going with tiny teams rather than the gigantic, bloated trees of VPs and Directors that other companies have. Their CFO even spoke[1] publicly about it, a rarity. Sometimes you just need a team of two people reporting to the CFO to do something. You don't need 2 SVPs, with 10 VPs, with 80 Directors, each with trees of management/ICs to do the same thing. 1: https://twitter.com/workmj/status/1595324…

Just because CFO's direct reports are lean, it doesn't mean that managers in other orgs don't indulge in empire building. It could happen even within CFO org, where he can't judge.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#407

Post by MonkeyClub » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:03 AM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #343

apetresc wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's easier to identify a low performer after a year of work than it is to identify a high performer after an hour of whiteboarding.

Low-performers are not relevant to this discussion. The accusation is that the companies hired more people than they knew what to do with / could apply productively in their business. If such a basic task is beyond the capability of decisionmakers, who is to say that they are capable of collecting the feedback from rank-and-file employees required to assess who needs firing? Mangers have many concerns apart from Perf…

> who do you think will get fired?

Ah, hold on, I know this one.

Steve will get fired, because the manager will think they can just drop-in replace him with the high-performing Bob.

Bob will then reach burnout due to the high demands and short deadlines, and he'll rage quit.

Then they'll hire Chad in a panic, who performed well at a whiteboarding interview.

Six months in, they're thinking of firing him, not just because he bro fists everyone in the office, but there's no one to replace him with.

So they promote him to manager, because of his obvious leader qualities, and assign him to hire his replacement.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#408

Post by gnicholas » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:11 AM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #342

giantg2 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly the family needs thing (which is true for me now, but wasn't then). I'm not sure it would have even worked though. Once they bring up the prospect of a promotion, they've already used a bunch of political capital to open that spot for you and it's an insult to say no. I get is different for other companies or even just other departments, but that's how it was for that one. The other thing is, my company meas…

I don't know if it helps, but what I've done when turning down promotions is to be sure they know that I'm pleased and honored by the offer and value it. And that the reason I'm turning it down is because I feel I can provide the greatest value to the company in the position I'm currently in. All of which is true, and phrases things so they know you're not turning your nose up at anything and that you have the compan…

Seems like a good idea, but with the risk that if you say you're choosing to stay "for the company" then the company can insist that actually it's better for them if you go to the new role. If you say it's about your family situation, then it's harder for them to insist.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#409

Post by dev_tty01 » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:15 AM UTC

jungledeuce wrote: post #25

You mean to tell me that Apple could have created thousands of high paying jobs, if only for several years, but didn’t. And this is good? I can never remember who to be mad at. More seriously, I realize this is just clickbait, but I wonder how you could determine objectively which approach (hiring slow and needing to catch up, hiring medium, hiring fast and needing to fire) is “better for business”. Seems very hard t…

>I can never remember who to be mad at.

Well, maybe don't be mad at anyone. Aside from a small number of true a-holes, the vast majority of people are all stumbling along doing the best they can and trying to make the best decisions they can. Yep, sometimes we humans don't make the best decisions. Sometimes we do dumb things. But at the end of the day, I personally believe most of us are trying to do the right thing. If that wasn't true, our society would rapidly descend into chaos.

As for me, I'm trying not to be mad at anyone. You do you I guess.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#410

Post by paulmd » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 5:28 AM UTC

juve1996 wrote: post #387

kypro wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where this logic irritates me the most is in the housing market. Similarly to those who blame companies for over hiring to meet pandemic demand, I've seen some people suggest the average home buyer was being reckless for buying a home during the pandemic, because "they brought the bubble!" I guess it's strange to me how the Fed can pump every asset class to the moon, force companies to over hire to meet demand, and c…

> I guess it's strange to me how the Fed can pump every asset class to the moon, force companies to over hire to meet demand, and cause a huge inflationary problem for consumers There were no consumer inflation issues for the past decade. It took a once in a life time pandemic supply shock to cause those issues. You're being unfair. It's easy to blame the fed for all your problems. The fact is inflation was stable an…

> It's easy to say "oh they should've raised rates in 2017 or 2014" in 2022. It was much harder to say back then.

it's funny that you brought this up unprompted because this is the obvious counterargument - the fed really really should have been doing moderate tightening of the interest rate in 2017-2018-2019 and everybody knows it, even you. Everyone said it too, I completely do not get your "it was much harder to say it back then", this was specifically something that everyone said was a bad idea except for one individual (let's call him Individual Number One) who wanted to goose the economy to get numbers up for his re-election the following year, and instead leaned on the fed to cut interest rates instead, throwing gas onto an already-roaring fire. And then when the pandemic hit the fed had absolutely no room to maneuver.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/30/federal-r...

this was all extremely predictable, for literally everyone except Individual #1, who didn't really care.