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“Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

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Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#281

Post by fastball »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #93
randomdata wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a farmer with experience growing roundup-ready crops: In order to obtain roundup-ready seeds you have to sign a contract with the vender. In said agreement, you agree to not do such things. If you want to do whatever you want with your field, don't enter into contractual agreements where you agree to follow certain rules.

In the case being discussed, the neighboring farmer had not signed any agreement with the vendor.

The farmer did enter into an agreement when he purchased Roundup.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#282

Post by randomdata »

bluGill wrote: post #81
exhilaration wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People underestimate how much agriculture is devoted solely to seed crops Can you explain this further? I never thought about where seeds come from. Are there giant Bayer-owned fields devoted to growing seeds?

There are a lot of those fields around growing just seed. Some are Bayer owned, others are regular farmers who contract with Bayer to grow seed as their crop. One of the most common jobs for young farm kids is "detasseling" where they go around to seed fields to cut the tassel (male part of the corn plant) off some of the plants. Normally you plant 1 row of male plants, and 4 rows of female plants, since corn plants…

> You can just assume that every rural kid between 15 and 18 does the above job for a couple summers

Interesting assumption. As a corn farmer, I've never seen anyone growing seed corn in person. It was certainly not a job I had when I was a kid of such an age. Obviously someone does out there, but you may be overestimating just how prevalent it is.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#283

Post by gleenn »

skratlo wrote: post #239
epistasis wrote: post #14

Cool and all, but there's not a single mention of "hybrid" on the entire page, which means that this is not targeted at the majority of, say, US agriculture. The general public does not understand agriculture well, and I've noticed that this misunderstanding is stronger among those that have huge huge concerns about seeds and GMOs. Hybridization is a huge benefit, one of the primary reasons to use seeds from somebody…

> few pay attention to the fact that most grains are protected or even patented Government and legislative failure. Just protect the seeds by disallowing any protection/patenting, for the public good, that's why we pay taxes.

It goes beyond country boundaries. There was an interesting case where China stole I think it was specialized corn to begin producing their own instead of spending large sums by buying the product or IP.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#284

Post by onepointsixC »

xedrac wrote: post #96
HDThoreaun wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the farmer had to do was not apply roundup to his crop when he hadn't planted the roundup resistant seeds.

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that his crop is being pollinated against his will, and why should he lose the freedom to spray something on his crop because his neighbor planted a certain seed? Why does it have to infect everyone like a virus?

Spray his crops with something that will 100% kill all of his original crop and only keeping the cross contaminated crop, which he will then specifically cultivate. Common now, it's really a shut and close case. He had no explanation as to an alternative valid reason to have done so and lost the case.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#286

Post by fragmede »

tptacek wrote: post #276
spywaregorilla wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is still irrelevant. You should not be able to sue someone for having your stuff. You should be able to sue them for stealing it. In this case it was not stolen. It was planted and spread naturally. And then the farmers chose to keep using the things that things that had basically fallen into their laps.

I really don't care if you think all patents are bogus. That is the most boring conceivable debate to have. There is nothing special about seeds to change the argument; that's all I'm here to say.

What's special about seeds is they reproduce with a bit of water, soil, and sunlight. My laptop does not and in fact will be very sad if I water it. Thus no matter how many patents Intel has on the things inside my laptop, there's a limit on how much I can ultimately do with the physical device.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#287

Post by zargon »

hinkley wrote: post #265
robwwilliams wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume that the backcross is marker-assisted for SNPs in the blight resistance locus. If that is true it amounts to the same thing you are proposing. Sounds just like making a speed-congenic mouse. Are they not selecting with markers at all?

They seem to be selecting with their eyeballs. They're jabbing trees with chestnut blight and seeing which ones succumb. Hence a petri dish for pathogen selection. IE, insane and reckless.

Sounds like they're actively trying to evolve a blight that infects Asian chestnuts as well.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#288

Post by tptacek »

fragmede wrote: post #286
tptacek wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't care if you think all patents are bogus. That is the most boring conceivable debate to have. There is nothing special about seeds to change the argument; that's all I'm here to say.

What's special about seeds is they reproduce with a bit of water, soil, and sunlight. My laptop does not and in fact will be very sad if I water it. Thus no matter how many patents Intel has on the things inside my laptop, there's a limit on how much I can ultimately do with the physical device.

Nothing you can do with water, soil, and sunlight is going to produce RoundUp --- or a RoundUp-Ready seed.

It's perfectly reasonable to oppose all patents. Just don't pretend the wind, sun, and dirt somehow invalidate seed patents. There's no distinction to draw.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#289

Post by jiminymcmoogley »

fragmede wrote: post #286
tptacek wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't care if you think all patents are bogus. That is the most boring conceivable debate to have. There is nothing special about seeds to change the argument; that's all I'm here to say.

What's special about seeds is they reproduce with a bit of water, soil, and sunlight. My laptop does not and in fact will be very sad if I water it. Thus no matter how many patents Intel has on the things inside my laptop, there's a limit on how much I can ultimately do with the physical device.

Wouldn't this actually be an argument in favor of seed patents? I've been more or less a complete IP abolitionist for so long now that thinking in IP maxi terms is basically a foreign language to me now, but wouldn't they make the argument that it's necessary to allow protections where the good is A. hard to develop initially and B. easy to reproduce?

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#290

Post by nine_k »

bombolo wrote: post #271
Scoundreller wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda what Iceland does. Multiple sheep per person. They tag 'em, let 'em roam free and collect them later in the year. https://www.cntraveler.com/story/iceland-welcomes-tourists-t... Same with many random islands explorers came across: they'd leave some livestock so when they came back later they'd have some dense and fresh food ready to harvest. Didn't work so well in Australia. And probably any of the islands most…

The reason why iceland can't have trees: sheep owners

Iceland actually has some trees. But in that climate they don't grow very tall.

Also, much of Iceland is a desert of lava, glass, and black sand; some other parts are covered with ice. Not many plants can survive in such a landscape, and those which do are usually not trees.

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