Shoot first ask questions later? Why not intercept it, disable it, and then dismantle it to figure out what and why it is?
What's the difference between disabling a flying object & shooting it down?
How many pieces it’s in, I suppose.
US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast
291–300 of 864 posts
Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast
#292We need a cheaper way to down these spy balloons. The sidewinder missile + F-22 flight time costs are an order of magnitude greater than the total cost of launching one balloon. Send over the High Energy Laser with Integrated Optical-dazzler (HELIOS) to protect the west coast.
The big balloon from earlier this month was more like a satellite hanging from a balloon. Not sure it was that cheap. The problem is what can you fly that has a cannon and can reach those altitudes. Apparently only the F22 and F15 could, and that was their very limit.
The shootdowns did not involve using airplane guns/cannons. Those are less accurate, especially at the engagement range (the aircraft were at 40,000 ft., IIRC, and shooting at 60,000 ft. balloons), and would have likely damaged the payload.
The shoot-downs used AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles (per TFA). We also don’t know the ceiling altitude of the F-22 since it’s classified.
However, the F-22 can carry the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile (AMRAAM) which has a disclosed engagement altitude of 70,000 feet - capable of engaging even higher altitude balloons than these. As I understand it, the Extended Range AMRAAM-ER is believed to have an engagement ceiling of 85,000 feet.
Meanwhile, the US also has the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) anti-ballistic missile system, an air defense system capable of engaging targets at very high altitude. While its capabilities are classified, its max engagement altitude is at least 490,000 ft. or 93 miles … though using it to attack a balloon is like swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. THAAD is mobile and could be deployed in response to a high altitude balloon threat (some of which can fly 120,000 ft.)
Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast
#293Spying happens all the time, even between allies. From what I read/understood about past spying incidents, it's only when someone starts mentioning it to the press that they want the rest of the population to be up an arms about it. Why that might be true: there are probably tons of Chinese spy events (and American spy events on China) that never made it. Was the balloon the first? Come on. If the above hypothesis is…
> If the above hypothesis is true, it means the U.S. is trying to rile up / ready / etc. the population to view China as a threat. If so, the previous balloon was a pretty fuckin' stupid way to do that, since letting it wander all over the US was obviously going to be used by political adversaries to attack the administration (justly or unjustly, doesn't matter).
Political adversaries will always attack the administration, that's par for the course.
But regardless of what the actual facts on the ground (er, in the sky) might be, or what party A says about party B, the media and online commentariat are framing them within a narrative of aggressive threats from China, and of war being imminent, possibly even necessary. Our consent is clearly being manufactured for something.
Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see much difference between Chinese routers having back-doors and what Cisco has peddled to its customers all these years either willfully or just incompetence.
I'd rather my own government spy on me than China. I'd rather Hannibal fucking Lecter be able to see me through my webcam than China.
Why, though? Your own government has far more power over you and far more reason to be interested in you than China ever would (unless you're a prominent critic of China, politically connected, or involved in military intelligence or something like that).
I mean I don't want anyone spying on me, but I'm less worried about China targetting me than the Czech government (where I live) or the UK one (where I'm from).
Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast
#295There was a fun theory on UFOs I saw recently. The general premise is this: U.S. adversaries realized they couldn't compete with the U.S. on spending. So they got creative and loaded the equivalent of Pringles cans up with a bunch of sensors, hooked them up to either a balloons or relatively cheap unmanned aircraft, and sent them through U.S. airspace to collect intelligence. They'd occasionally get caught (perhaps o…
Those UFOs were lens flares. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs Turns out we like to spend gobs of money even when we're just chasing our shadow.
Mick Wests videos on the topic have been thoroughly debunked by fighter pilots and experienced aviators.
He also completely ignores the eyewitness testimony and radar data.
He’s one of the least credible debunkers you can find.
Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wondered about this too. But even balloons are maneuverable in some sense, by changing their altitude. So maybe the meaning is more like "didn't maneuver in response to our presence".
> But even balloons are maneuverable in some sense, by changing their altitude. Most balloons are not equipped to actively change their bouyancy.
Especially because the high altitude stuff are generally zero pressure balloons
Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd say it feels like a return to the era of cold war tensions but I wouldn't know, I was born around when the Berlin Wall fell. What say you older HNers, is this what it was like?
What say you older HNers, is this what it was like? The Cold War was a lot scarier than what we have now. In the back of your mind, every day you thought that today could be the day we all get wiped out. I'm not too worried about Russia or China starting anything nuclear these days. Russia invade Scandinavia? Sure. China invade Taiwan? Absolutely. But I'm not worried that they'll nuke someone else from a distance.
> But I'm not worried that they'll nuke someone else from a distance.
I'd like to hear more about this perspective- is this based solely on the fact that they haven't done it before or something else?
Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
edit: Maybe this? https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-air-fo...
I dont see anything crazy there > Minihan said in the memo that because both Taiwan and the U.S. will have presidential elections in 2024, the U.S. will be “distracted,” and Chinese President Xi Jinping will have an opportunity to move on Taiwan.
You need to read the full memo, sent out as an email and watch his prior speeches. The memo appears to have been admonished by actual national security experts. Irregardless of the accuracy, there are better ways to handle these things, and he doesn't seem to have proper authority to make those statements.
Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast
#299We need a cheaper way to down these spy balloons. The sidewinder missile + F-22 flight time costs are an order of magnitude greater than the total cost of launching one balloon. Send over the High Energy Laser with Integrated Optical-dazzler (HELIOS) to protect the west coast.
> The sidewinder missile + F-22 flight time costs are an order of magnitude greater than the total cost of launching one balloon. This seems like conjecture. Is there any reliable data on how much said balloon cost?
The balloon last week could have easily been an order of magnitude more expensive than the AIM-9X. It was hundreds of feet in diameter with a suspended gantry with a multi-kw solar array. You don't put that much solar on to power nothing, so presumably there was a ton of military grade comms equipment on it.
Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast
#300I've wondered if these incursions are intentional on the part of the Chinese to provoke a precedent setting response to airborne (and beyond) surveillance. "They shoot down our surveillance balloons, giving us precedent to shoot down their high altitude drone planes or satellites in the future."
Or more directly, maybe they intend to start shooting down our balloons. There were stories last year that the US military was planning to deploy surveillance balloons over Russian and China. Have we indeed been doing so? Here's one of the stories: https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/07/06/us-military-balloo....