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Roman church decorated with 4k skeletons

smithsonianmag.com

141–150 of 202 posts

Re: Roman church decorated with 4k skeletons

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some would say it’s incredibly cruel to bring new life into existence for that very reason.

Yet those same people (whomever they are) continue to perpetuate their own "cruel" existence.

The living can consent

Re: Roman church decorated with 4k skeletons

#143

46. Keep death daily before your eyes. Rule of St Benedict https://gutenberg.org/cache/epub/50040/pg50040-images.html#c...

5:00AM every morning I receive a reminder on my phone: "You will die someday."

I get text messages like that. Still don’t know who it is.

Re: Roman church decorated with 4k skeletons

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about you but seeing a big pile of skeletons in a basement mainly serves to confirm the ideas about death that I already had. It's also kind of misleading because they're not complaining but dying is actually pretty awful unless you're really, really lucky.

Wait, is it lucky if you’re aware of your last moments or lucky if you’re not?

It depends on the moments, really.

Re: Roman church decorated with 4k skeletons

#145
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found one in Poland as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_Chapel EDIT: and in Portugal https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-europe/story-... And in Czech Republic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary And in Peru: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_and_Convent_of_San_Fr... And another list with 40 entries: https://www.atlasobscura.com/lists/definitive-guide-to-ossua...

The crypts under Stefans Dom in Vienna are well worth a visit. To cite a kid during my visit: "Is grand pa looking like thatvas well now?" Also, there are the Parus catacombs.

Paris, I hope.

There's a bag at the exit for visitors to return "souvenirs" if they change their mind.

Re: Roman church decorated with 4k skeletons

#146
post #84
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean this stuff is literally laid out in the Creed which is recited at every mass and various times besides. There are various other Creeds used that make things even more explicit such as the Athanasian Creed. And nothing really is unique to the Catholics, the Orthodox are onboard for this stuff. I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in…

Yeah, non-trinitarian Christianity is Mormons, Jehovas Witnesses, and it gets much more obscure from there.

Neither Mormons nor Jehovas Witnesses are considered Christians.

Re: Roman church decorated with 4k skeletons

#147
I went to a Catholic school growing up, my parents weren't religious and I largely had no relationship to the faith but one thing that always fascinated me growing up was the old, imposing Gothic church that the students celebrated mass in, which as a kid always was a little bit scary to me.

This church with death on display reminds me of that and to me what's always been striking is that there's almost a pagan or occult undercurrent in Catholicism. I think Midnight Mass, a great show btw, captures this as well. Trying to show how much of an actual blood ritual the Catholic Eucharist is. (in Catholicism bread and wine are taken to be transformed into literally(!), not figuratively the blood and body of Christ).

Also wherever Catholicism mixes with folk traditions this is visible, with figures like Santa Muerte in Latin America. And while the Catholic church usually distances itself from this, it's always interesting how easily these traditions blend.

Re: Roman church decorated with 4k skeletons

#148
post #15

Beautiful place. The crypt includes a quote that really resonates with you - translated to English - "you are what we were; you will be what we are"

Truly beautiful place, and one of the more interesting museums I visited in Rome in terms of artifacts and such on display.

Re: Roman church decorated with 4k skeletons

#149
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean, for example: https://blogs.icrc.org/law-and-policy/2018/11/01/respect-for... > "Respect for dead bodies manifests itself in diverse ways in different cultures around the world.In Islamic law and Muslim cultures, burying the dead in the ground is the correct way to respect dead bodies. Cremation is prohibited under Islamic law because, unlike in some cultures, it is considered a violation of the dignity o…

A stable society stands on a set of shared principles, not on blind respect of each other traditions, no matter what those are. That no-cremation rule was made for a good reason, but that reason can't be explained to masses, hence the "just do what the sacred book tells you!" A dead body isn't completely dead, so it's better (more respectful, indeed) to keep it for two months, and then it can be burnt. But you can't…

I don't think that's how it happened. You can make arguments for all sorts of burial practices.

It was a classic argument, recounted by Herodotus:

When Darius was king, he summoned the Greeks who were with him and asked them what price would persuade them to eat their fathers’ dead bodies. They answered that there was no price for which they would do it. Then he summoned those Indians who are called Callatiae, who eat their parents, and asked them (the Greeks being present and understanding by interpretation what was said) what would make them willing to burn their fathers at death. The Indians cried aloud, that he should not speak of so horrid an act.

Herodotus used this anecdote, rather dubiously I think, it as an argument that everyone should stick to their own customs and not think too much about what other people do. But I think Darius himself, if it actually happened, used it more as an argument for tolerance, agnosticism - and cruelty.

Because it's a bit cruel to shock the poor Greeks and Callatiae like that, isn't it? And rulers of most large (and thus multicultural) empires always seemed to be a bit on the cruel side to me.

What do you do, when you encounter people, for whom everything you consider important, sacred, meaningful, just doesn't register at all, and they care about completely different things? Do you shut it out? Or do you allow yourself to drift towards indifference and nihilism, that maybe none of that stuff matters at all?

As I recall, Popper called it "the strain of civilization", how it gnaws on people to have to deal with so many people who don't share their basic values of what's important in life. And how they can resort to isolationism and cruelty to cope with it.

The Christian church's innovation was to seek a tight core of meaningful beliefs, with divine justifications of course, but be fairly tolerant of more secondary sources of meaning, those coming from custom and culture. Like Paul, who insisted that no food was forbidden to eat, even food that had been served up to idols, but that he'd nonetheless respect the dietary customs of the people he ate with because it was important to them ("Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.")

It was really the first truly multicultural faith, since up to then, faith, customs and culture had been one and the same.

So it's not so out of character, really, that the Catholic church a few years ago ruled that the Madagascar custom of exhuming the dead and dancing with them wasn't contrary to the faith, since it was "just" a cultural practice and didn't necessarily imply any beliefs incompatible with Christianity.

Re: Roman church decorated with 4k skeletons

#150
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me sir, but now you're making it look like they are ubiquitous. Pretty sure that's not the case either. So I appreciate this post, first time I hear of this.

Found one in Poland as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_Chapel EDIT: and in Portugal https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-europe/story-... And in Czech Republic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary And in Peru: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_and_Convent_of_San_Fr... And another list with 40 entries: https://www.atlasobscura.com/lists/definitive-guide-to-ossua...

I've been to the Portugese Chapel of Bones in Évora. The two things that really struck me were the sheer size of it — I expected a tiny room, and instead it was a decently sized chapel — and how every skull essentially looked the same. A stark reminder of how similar we all are in the end.
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