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Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

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Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#241

Post by harshalizee »

com2kid wrote: post #110
kenperkins wrote: post #39

Seattle is complex in this regard as the elevation changes between neighborhoods are an additional dimension. If I was living at the base of Lower Queen Anne and the "facilities" meeting the 15m criteria was at the top, that's not something I would consider a viable walk.

> Seattle is complex in this regard as the elevation changes between neighborhoods are an additional dimension. And then there is the socio-economic history of elevations in Seattle. tl;dr Historically poor people (and minorities) lived at the bottom of hills, rich people at the top. To this day, you can literally see houses get nicer as you go up hills. There are also neighborhoods with a hill in the middle where on…

Well, today I can't afford to buy anything on either side of the hill on QA. Equality achieved! I'm only half kidding though.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#242

Post by karmelapple »

superfrank wrote: post #235
qbasic_forever wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the grocery stores in the core of Seattle are exactly like that--urban centers with underground parking. Some even have apartments on top of them so you could live above the store if you desired.

I wouldn't say all. In the downtown core, most are (some in the ID are not), but once you start getting out of the more urban neighborhoods, it's hit or miss. West Seattle, North Seattle, and South Seattle all have plenty of supermarkets that are large one story buildings in the middle of a big parking lot.

And in some places it’s illegal to build something like that. Zoning laws can be so restrictive, even in urban areas like those you mention.

I think supermarkets becoming 4-over-1 buildings with living places above them would be fantastic. Walk down to the first floor to get your groceries, walk them up to your home.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#243

Post by fineIllregister »

com2kid wrote: post #219
Zagill wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing about cars specifically enables this. Building cities so that you have to drive to travel any significant distance, however, guarantees that you need a car to take advantage of competitive pricing. But that's self-apparent... Building dense cities that can be accessed by bike and on foot would have the same effect. Spreading out your city so that what could be a 15 minute walk is now a 15 minute drive isn't a…

> Building dense cities that can be accessed by bike and on foot would have the same effect. I love density, but, in my experience this is not true. London doesn't have a large competitive market of grocery stores. Neither does Boston or New York City. Density means higher real estate prices, that means grocery store sizes go down, and the barrier to entry goes up. Yes you can get more small specialty shops (which is…

That doesn't match my experience in Boston.

Multiple neighborhoods I lived in had walking access to Stop & Shop, Star Market, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Target, bfresh, cheap overstock/clearance stores, a farmers market, and other independent grocers, many catering to nationalities/ethnicities with large subcommunities in the area. Just a train or bus ride away I could go to Market Basket, Roche Brothers, Wegmans, a worker owned-co-op, and more farmers markets and independent grocers.

Costco was a longer train ride away, but accessible if you wanted something specifically from there. Delivery is more economical because of the shorter distances involved.

You can see this yourself by doing a map search.

In rural areas I've lived, one is common, sometimes zero within a fifteen minute drive. Suburban areas might have two or three regional supermarkets, plus Walmart, Target, Costco and/or Sam's, but always way fewer within the area covered by the same travel time.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#244

Post by wenc »

WaxProlix wrote: post #129
mdorazio wrote: post #126

>Of the 89 neighborhoods considered, only nine are “15-minute neighborhoods” walkable for 90% or more of their residents. I'd love to see the median rent in those nine compared to elsewhere in the city. Can any Seattle residents here provide some insight?

Downtown (CBD): Expensive International District: Euphemism for Chinatown, not expensive Pioneer Square: It varies, but fairly expensive despite the rampant homelessness Pike Place Market: Very expensive Ballard: Expensive new buildings, more affordable older ones Capitol Hill: Expensive, generally South Lake Union: Expensive Madrona: Expensive

> International District: Euphemism for Chinatown, not expensive

It’s not a euphemism. Euphemism refers to a word that conceals something unpleasant or embarrassing. It is anything but. It is working class yes but nothing wrong with that.

The full name (since 1999) is Chinatown-ID. The majority of the inhabitants are Chinese but it encompasses Little Saigon and the less prominent but still existing Japantown (Uwajimaya and several Japanese businesses still have a presence).

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#245

Post by powersnail »

hiidrew wrote: post #50
kyeb wrote: post #48

I'd be super interested to see an analysis using exactly the same methodology as this performed on various other cities (SF, NYC, LA, maybe some European cities like Amsterdam or Cologne) for comparison. I would bet Seattle is near the top for the US in walkability (probably behind NYC only)

it makes the top 10 according to this: https://www.walkscore.com/cities-and-neighborhoods/ honestly surprised that SF is more walkable than NYC with this criteria

SF is walkable if elevation is not a problem for you. Some slopes are so steep that it's like hiking up a trail.

At least it isn't like San Jose or Newark, where sidewalks just aren't there along some roads, in residential area, or suddenly cut short in the middle of a block where you have to walk back to the previous crossing for an alternative route. And there are _so many_ dead ends without warning. So many.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#246

Post by ryukafalz »

sandworm101 wrote: post #230
ryukafalz wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminder that it only takes about 6 minutes to bike a mile, or 8 if you go at a leisurely Dutch pace. You don't need cars to go far enough to have quite a few options, you just need the infrastructure to let you do so.

Lol. Maybe is Seattle or SF. Biking in unplowed snow/ice is far slower, when it is even possible.

Unplowed? Sure, but cities should be plowing. Driving on unplowed snow/ice is also far slower. :)

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#247

Post by frosted-flakes »

sandworm101 wrote: post #181
hammock wrote: post #38

The way “supermarkets” are in the US, I don’t WANT to be a 15 minute walk from one. They are usually surrounded by a mile of blacktop and concrete, for all the drive-in shoppers in the front and all the trucks offloading goods or picking up deliveries in the back. Would much rather be near a decent small or midsize grocery with no or limited off-street parking, and which receives its deliveries on the street in the e…

Maybe is Seattle, where weather means you can have door/windows more often than not. But opinions change north/southern in places that alternate between heating and air conditioning. Noise is less of an issue and walking takes much more commitment. It was -15c last night outside my place. I would love to be 15min from a large supermarket. At the moment I am a 25m drive from the nearest place selling bananas. Even if…

You don't live in a city though.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#248

Post by duxup »

com2kid wrote: post #124
duxup wrote: post #2

I like the idea of walking 15 minutes to get all the things. But man when I think of the costs involved in making sure there is a High School (in the US they tend to be large and draw from a distance) within 15 minutes of everywhere (no small cost to drop in a high school somewhere), or plop down a grocery store in a neighborhood ... that sounds both super expensive and politically difficult, and for some good reason…

Seattle doesn't have nearly enough density to have that many high schools. Given the ever falling birth rate, it likely never will. The density would need to be obscenely high. Figure high schools have 4x the number of students that elementary schools do, and we'd need 2x the elementary schools to make them all walkable, that means Seattle would have to have 8x the number of students in high school than it currently…

>Seattle doesn't have nearly enough density to have that many high schools

That's a good point too.

The local urban schools near me have had to close high schools, not open new ones.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#249

Post by duxup »

actionfromafar wrote: post #189
duxup wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree generally about zoning laws. But I also think they do a good job of keeping joe schmo from trying to turn a random plot into a car repair business that is just not suited to the job. Rando business guy doesn't care if the area is suited for it and neither do their customers. I speak from experience as I lived in a house near a guy who decided to do just that... broken down cars parked everywhere (leaking all…

Sure, write that into the zoning law. No obnoxious or environmentally harming activity. A far cry from buying some milk and cereal in the morning.

>A far cry from buying some milk and cereal in the morning.

Depends on the store. I've lived next to grocery stores with the loudest compressors for refrigeration that I've ever heard. Going to take some nuance there.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#250

Post by yayadarsh »

muricula wrote: post #228
Arelius wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in contrast, the QFC on Broadway in Capital Hill for instance, has no above-ground parking lot. And is very walkable.

There's actually a parking lot above the QFC. There's also a solid ramen place and a drugstore up there.

I assume they are talking about the other QFC on Broadway (north of the Pike St one)
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