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Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

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Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#11

Post by duxup »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #7
duxup wrote: post #2

I like the idea of walking 15 minutes to get all the things. But man when I think of the costs involved in making sure there is a High School (in the US they tend to be large and draw from a distance) within 15 minutes of everywhere (no small cost to drop in a high school somewhere), or plop down a grocery store in a neighborhood ... that sounds both super expensive and politically difficult, and for some good reason…

My guess is that most USA urban neighborhoods in, say, 1960 (or 1930), met the 15 minute criteria. Still, I'd guess you'd be right that it would be enormously expensive and difficult to bring this back. But it was once this way, and it was human decisions that made it not this way. If we want it to be this way again and start, it can be eventually.

I think it is plausible to work towards, much of it. Some of it is fairly low hanging fruit. If you get several of the check boxes but not a coffee shop, high school, restaurant .... that's pretty good, you got a lot of bases covered.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#12

Post by jgwil2 »

duxup wrote: post #2

I like the idea of walking 15 minutes to get all the things. But man when I think of the costs involved in making sure there is a High School (in the US they tend to be large and draw from a distance) within 15 minutes of everywhere (no small cost to drop in a high school somewhere), or plop down a grocery store in a neighborhood ... that sounds both super expensive and politically difficult, and for some good reason…

I think every neighborhood should have an elementary school within walking distance (my local elementary school is not and it annoys me to no end) but I agree that for high schools this might be unrealistic, and anyway a good transit system should be able to make it easy for kids to get to high school whether they attend their local school or not.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#13

Post by trgn »

duxup wrote: post #6
actionfromafar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zoning laws are too strict. Buy a home and convert it to a grocery store? No can do, in many places.

I agree generally about zoning laws. But I also think they do a good job of keeping joe schmo from trying to turn a random plot into a car repair business that is just not suited to the job. Rando business guy doesn't care if the area is suited for it and neither do their customers. I speak from experience as I lived in a house near a guy who decided to do just that... broken down cars parked everywhere (leaking all…

Yeah. Some things need to be kept out. Funnily enough, it's nearly always car related. Repair shops, gas stations, parking lots, ... Nothing trashes up a city more than cars.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#14

Post by Ialdaboth »

actionfromafar wrote: post #4
duxup wrote: post #2

I like the idea of walking 15 minutes to get all the things. But man when I think of the costs involved in making sure there is a High School (in the US they tend to be large and draw from a distance) within 15 minutes of everywhere (no small cost to drop in a high school somewhere), or plop down a grocery store in a neighborhood ... that sounds both super expensive and politically difficult, and for some good reason…

Zoning laws are too strict. Buy a home and convert it to a grocery store? No can do, in many places.

Zoning laws are a great way to implement social segregation without explicitely saying it too loudly, I guess that's the reason they are so popular in "free" and "open" societies.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#15

Post by Qworg »

logifail wrote: post #3
duxup wrote: post #2

I like the idea of walking 15 minutes to get all the things. But man when I think of the costs involved in making sure there is a High School (in the US they tend to be large and draw from a distance) within 15 minutes of everywhere (no small cost to drop in a high school somewhere), or plop down a grocery store in a neighborhood ... that sounds both super expensive and politically difficult, and for some good reason…

> a High School (This is going to sound like we're playing Sim City 2000) but don't forget to add a hospital (a proper one, with an emergency room), a fire station, a police station... > a grocery store Are there many neighbourhoods which don't already have some kind of grocery store?

According to the USDA, about 6.2% (19M) Americans have limited/no access to a grocery store.

https://www.aecf.org/blog/exploring-americas-food-deserts covers the research (and links to the paper).

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#16

Post by ry4nolson »

logifail wrote: post #3
duxup wrote: post #2

I like the idea of walking 15 minutes to get all the things. But man when I think of the costs involved in making sure there is a High School (in the US they tend to be large and draw from a distance) within 15 minutes of everywhere (no small cost to drop in a high school somewhere), or plop down a grocery store in a neighborhood ... that sounds both super expensive and politically difficult, and for some good reason…

> a High School (This is going to sound like we're playing Sim City 2000) but don't forget to add a hospital (a proper one, with an emergency room), a fire station, a police station... > a grocery store Are there many neighbourhoods which don't already have some kind of grocery store?

> Are there many neighbourhoods which don't already have some kind of grocery store?

Tons. They're called food deserts.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#17

Post by trillic »

logifail wrote: post #3
duxup wrote: post #2

I like the idea of walking 15 minutes to get all the things. But man when I think of the costs involved in making sure there is a High School (in the US they tend to be large and draw from a distance) within 15 minutes of everywhere (no small cost to drop in a high school somewhere), or plop down a grocery store in a neighborhood ... that sounds both super expensive and politically difficult, and for some good reason…

> a High School (This is going to sound like we're playing Sim City 2000) but don't forget to add a hospital (a proper one, with an emergency room), a fire station, a police station... > a grocery store Are there many neighbourhoods which don't already have some kind of grocery store?

They're called food deserts and they exist all over the United States. Even in big cities.

They are not the same as a food dessert.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#18

Post by tstrimple »

duxup wrote: post #6
actionfromafar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zoning laws are too strict. Buy a home and convert it to a grocery store? No can do, in many places.

I agree generally about zoning laws. But I also think they do a good job of keeping joe schmo from trying to turn a random plot into a car repair business that is just not suited to the job. Rando business guy doesn't care if the area is suited for it and neither do their customers. I speak from experience as I lived in a house near a guy who decided to do just that... broken down cars parked everywhere (leaking all…

I think this is why people tend to like the Japanese zoning model where things are divided up into different "nuisance" levels. Something like an auto shop would be more of a nuisance than say a coffee shop. You're allowed to build anything in a zone as long as it's below the zone's nuisance level. This will help keep real industrial style work away from where people are living and eating, but allows for so much more retail opportunity in those zones.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#19

Post by nicoburns »

duxup wrote: post #2

I like the idea of walking 15 minutes to get all the things. But man when I think of the costs involved in making sure there is a High School (in the US they tend to be large and draw from a distance) within 15 minutes of everywhere (no small cost to drop in a high school somewhere), or plop down a grocery store in a neighborhood ... that sounds both super expensive and politically difficult, and for some good reason…

> he costs involved in making sure there is a High School (in the US they tend to be large and draw from a distance) within 15 minutes of everywhere (no small cost to drop in a high school somewhere), or plop down a grocery store in a neighborhood ... that sounds both super expensive and politically difficult, and for some good reasons.

A high school I understand (where I live in the UK it's common for high school kids to catch the bus to school if they don't live close - as long as you live within a 15 minute walk of the bus stop that seems fine). But a grocery store? What's difficult about that? Just convert a house.

Re: Is Seattle a 15-minute city? It depends on where you want to walk

#20

Post by jrochkind1 »

duxup wrote: post #11
jrochkind1 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that most USA urban neighborhoods in, say, 1960 (or 1930), met the 15 minute criteria. Still, I'd guess you'd be right that it would be enormously expensive and difficult to bring this back. But it was once this way, and it was human decisions that made it not this way. If we want it to be this way again and start, it can be eventually.

I think it is plausible to work towards, much of it. Some of it is fairly low hanging fruit. If you get several of the check boxes but not a coffee shop, high school, restaurant .... that's pretty good, you got a lot of bases covered.

For me personally, coffee shops and restaurants within a 15 minute walk is huge for my quality of life. I currently have it... barely.
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