How can a Tesla can even be old enough to drink
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Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”
71–80 of 119 posts
Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”
#72I'm not sure why they don't explicitly write in the report that the driver may have been trapped in the back seat, and was unable to locate or use the mechanical release to escape. While that wouldn't be a contributing factor to the wreck, it would be a contributing factor the the driver's death, and important for Tesla and their passengers to know about. The report states: The frontal impact with the tree resulted i…
> I'm not sure why they don't explicitly write in the report that the driver may have been trapped in the back seat, and was unable to locate or use the mechanical release to escape.
Because the NTSB cannot establish that conclusively given the almost total lack of physical evidence remaining after the vehicle fire.
It does not mean that a vehicle defect does not actually exist from the NTSB's point-of-view. It just means that the NTSB lacks the physical evidence to conclude anything there.
(I personally find the necessary "additional steps" required for exiting the vehicle from the rear seats in the event of a power loss troubling.)
More broadly, this NTSB report is being misinterpreted by many here.
The "probable causes" (not "causes") and "lessons learned" (tellingly distinct from the NTSB's more traditional "safety recommendations") established in the final report are exactly tailored to the physical evidence and physical facts that did remain independently of Tesla (the company) - and no more.
The actual title of the HN submission is, in my view, inappropriately written by excluding the word "probable".
Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”
#73This was the one where the media reported that because nobody was found in the front seat it must have been the fault of the self-driving feature. The NTSB found that none of the driver-assistance features were activated, and the driver was probably tossed into the backseat from the impact: Although the driver’s seat was found vacant and the driver was found in the left rear seat, the available evidence suggests that…
I'm confused by this description. Are they saying the impact caused the driver to be ejected from the front seat to the rear? I'm not sure physics works that way. Are they saying the driver left the front seat and climbed into the rear so that he could blame autopilot when the police arrived on scene?
Unfortunately, I've seen first-hand that passengers in the front of a vehicle can be thrown into the rear of a vehicle in a crash. The way that excerpt describes it though, it makes me wonder if they tried to crawl out of the car "post crash" via the rear, and checked out before they could get out of the car?
Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
It wasn't "media disinformation", it was the local constable and his accident investigators being wrong. https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/tesla-spring-crash-f... And even in that article, there's an addendum a couple of months later stating that a person was seen getting in the driver's seat and that the NTSB reenactment wasn't able to engage the autosteering when trying to replicate the crash. I don't know wh…
> it was the local constable and his accident investigators being wrong Possibly it's the media's job to question when law enforcement comments seem implausible?
What general reporter would have the experience and evidence to override an authority speaking with that confidence? They're reporting news. They report the law enforcement side and then the Tesla side. They updated (at the top of the article) twice as more information came to hand.
Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This was the one where the media reported that because nobody was found in the front seat it must have been the fault of the self-driving feature. And the fact that this was media disinformation won't matter much, because the damage to the Tesla brand and the idea of self driving cars in the public's collective consciousness has already been done, and won't easily be undone by these newly revealed facts. "A lie mak…
Conspiracy theory: Autonomous driving is being undermined by traditional car companies who see that if it is successful, it would hugely change personal transportation and greatly reduce total sales of vehicles.
I have the feeling that automotive manufacturers themselves wouldn't have anything to gain by undermining driverless cars.
The insurance companies that underwrite them, on the other hand.
Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”
#76Almost 43,000 people died in car-related deaths in the US in 2021 (and millions more worldwide). I hope we can stop focusing on the small number of deaths from this one car company that has self-driving features. Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_bites_dog
No consumer can purchase any vehicle that is capable of "self-driving" or "driving itself" today.
Tesla's vehicles are not capable of self-driving and, at all times, the human driver is driving the vehicle as both Autopilot and FSD Beta are partial automated driving systems that require a human driver fallback at all times.
The attentiveness required of the human driver with a partial automated driving system is equivalent (on a systems-level) to if the vehicle was not equipped with any automated driving system at all.
Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conspiracy theory: Autonomous driving is being undermined by traditional car companies who see that if it is successful, it would hugely change personal transportation and greatly reduce total sales of vehicles.
Alternate conspiracy theory: Tesla does not market its cars, while traditional automakers spend billions advertising dollars per year. Reporters work for organizations that rely on advertising.
This isn’t really a conspiracy theory. Any time you see a positive puff piece listed as being written by “staff” or similarly vague term… that’s a marketing piece that is a paid placement.
Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”
#78This was the one where the media reported that because nobody was found in the front seat it must have been the fault of the self-driving feature. The NTSB found that none of the driver-assistance features were activated, and the driver was probably tossed into the backseat from the impact: Although the driver’s seat was found vacant and the driver was found in the left rear seat, the available evidence suggests that…
I'm confused by this description. Are they saying the impact caused the driver to be ejected from the front seat to the rear? I'm not sure physics works that way. Are they saying the driver left the front seat and climbed into the rear so that he could blame autopilot when the police arrived on scene?
You'll find plenty of failed seats in crashes, it's a known factor and an item that has had it's share of recalls. I'm sure you can find many improperly or poorly positioned seats that also contributed to the post accident conditions.
Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”
#79"Excessive speed" and "alcohol intoxication" -- two common causes of human driver failure. Other causes of human driver failure include driving while tired or exhausted, falling asleep at the wheel, driving while angry or upset, getting bored while driving, using the car's infotainment system while driving, using a mobile phone while driving, getting distracted by passengers, smoking pot while driving, being a reckle…
Roadways have failure modes of their own, pavement fails. Vehicles have parts that fail. Pedestrians are 1/6 of all motor vehicle fatalities. Dangerous weather happens at least once a year in most of the country. People are allowed to and still enjoy riding motorcycles.
Meanwhile, excessive speed and intoxication account for more than 50% of all fatalities. You can solve this problem without having to wait for an AI car, it's probably morally justified to do even if you think those AI cars will arrive "any minute now."
Finally.. I am not looking forward to the day when a parent puts their kids in an AI car and does not accompany them to their destination. People will invent new failure modes for you.
Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”
#80"Excessive speed" and "alcohol intoxication" -- two common causes of human driver failure. Other causes of human driver failure include driving while tired or exhausted, falling asleep at the wheel, driving while angry or upset, getting bored while driving, using the car's infotainment system while driving, using a mobile phone while driving, getting distracted by passengers, smoking pot while driving, being a reckle…
We already have self driving that works and it's called a train. Instead of dumping money into self driving we should improve infrastructure and motivate more people to take trains.
> and motivate more people to take trains.
If you build a train that does what I need without requiring copious amounts of my spare time, I might take it. If you don't then your only "motivation" boils down to "reducing options until the train is all that is left."
People need infrastructure that meets their demands. If it works, they'll be plenty motivated.