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Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

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Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#51

Post by ninjagoo »

> Although the driver’s seat was found vacant and the driver was found in the left rear seat, the available evidence suggests that the driver was seated in the driver’s seat at the time of the crash and moved into the rear seat postcrash. Specifically, residential security video showed both the driver and passenger getting into the front seats prior to driving away from the residence. In addition, the EDR data showed active accelerator pedal inputs consistent with driver activity in the 5 seconds prior to the impact with the tree, and that the driver’s seat belt was connected at the time of the crash. Finally, the steering wheel examination conducted by the NTSB Materials Laboratory indicated an impact to the upper left quadrant, consistent with the driver loading the steering wheel during a frontal crash.

If the driver was indeed wearing a seatbelt, how does that person end up in the left back seat in a frontal crash? Now I have questions about that seat belt.

Especially considering this comment in the report: In addition, the EDR data showed active accelerator pedal inputs consistent with driver activity in the 5 seconds prior to the impact with the tree, and that the driver’s seat belt was connected at the time of the crash.

So there was a driver pushing the accelerator, wearing a seatbelt (assumption) and ending up in the rear seat behind the drivers' seat? Did the driver simply plug in the seatbelt without putting it on? Or did the driver survive the crash, get into the rear seat, and was unable to get out in time?

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#52

Post by pwinnski »

epgui wrote: post #39
jcranmer wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> greatly reduce total sales of vehicles. This is one of those things that always struck me as a weird, poor argument... how is autonomous driving supposed to suddenly make everyone want to stop owning their cars and use taxis instead?

When you own a car, you typically only use it a small percentage of the day (it certainly is true of the average owner). When you're offering a ride service, that one car is being utilized a much higher proportion of the day. Ignoring the driver, taxi/ride-hail/autonomous-ride services are much more efficient uses of a vehicle over time. (And this is just a side note, but obviously if you don't have to pay for a huma…

This seems to run counter to how humans work, or at least how Americans work.

Already many people would benefit financially from using public transport or ride-sharing, or even carpooling, but they don't. Because they want their car! Many people are paying too much to fuel up vehicles that are much too large for their normal use, but they want their truck!

Very, very, very few people think rationally about vehicle ownership, and telling them, "You know, your car can go do other things while you're working," just doesn't fly. Why would I want someone else in my car? Why would I want to have to keep my car spotless for others? What if they don't for me? What if something happens and I want to go to lunch early, or there's an emergency and my car is 20 minutes away? These aren't rational concerns for most people, but even if a company managed to truly deliver level 5 automatic driving, I can't imagine the majority of people would use it to let their cars go any farther than the nearest parking spot without them.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#53

Post by Symbiote »

climb_stealth wrote: post #43
jo6gwb wrote: post #15

I'm not sure why they don't explicitly write in the report that the driver may have been trapped in the back seat, and was unable to locate or use the mechanical release to escape. While that wouldn't be a contributing factor to the wreck, it would be a contributing factor the the driver's death, and important for Tesla and their passengers to know about. The report states: The frontal impact with the tree resulted i…

That sounds pretty terrifying in an emergency situation. What is the reason for the rear doors working differently? I can't picture someone referring to their user manual or looking under the seat to open the door when the car is on fire. This reads like a terrible design.

I was in a car crash and resulting fire when I was a child. The ambulance staff (and later my dad) praised me for helping my younger brother out of the car, since the door needed kicking from inside to open it.

If you have a Tesla with these stupid rear door locks, make sure your children know how to open them.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#54

Post by jaapbadlands »

commiepatrol wrote: post #49
cs702 wrote: post #9

"Excessive speed" and "alcohol intoxication" -- two common causes of human driver failure. Other causes of human driver failure include driving while tired or exhausted, falling asleep at the wheel, driving while angry or upset, getting bored while driving, using the car's infotainment system while driving, using a mobile phone while driving, getting distracted by passengers, smoking pot while driving, being a reckle…

We already have self driving that works and it's called a train. Instead of dumping money into self driving we should improve infrastructure and motivate more people to take trains.

Door-to-door transport is here to stay, despite any idealised vision of everyone moving to a train schedule.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#55

Post by brewdad »

palata wrote: post #42
epgui wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you own a car, you typically only use it a small percentage of the day (it certainly is true of the average owner). When you're offering a ride service, that one car is being utilized a much higher proportion of the day. Ignoring the driver, taxi/ride-hail/autonomous-ride services are much more efficient uses of a vehicle over time. (And this is just a side note, but obviously if you don't have to pay for a huma…

When you own a car, you don't want to wait 20min before it's ready for you. You want to bring it in remote places where it will stay so that you won't have to wait 2h for it to come back. And you want to leave your stuff in it. If you are ready to wait for a car to come pick you up, or to plan your trip based on the schedule of the car, and to pack your stuff in one bag that you can carry along... ... then, my friend…

Much like car sharing today, you'll have the option to keep the car at a remote trailhead or whatever, so it will be there in 2 hours. You'll just have to continue paying for it. Otherwise, you can end your ride and take your chances that it will still be there when you get back. In areas outside the "home" area, you'll have no choice but to keep paying since you can't "return" the car there.

People that live in cities, where this is most likely to catch on earlier, already can't leave anything in their cars unless they want to come back to a smashed window.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#56

Post by hnburnsy »

Smoosh wrote: post #27
anonporridge wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was the one where the media reported that because nobody was found in the front seat it must have been the fault of the self-driving feature. And the fact that this was media disinformation won't matter much, because the damage to the Tesla brand and the idea of self driving cars in the public's collective consciousness has already been done, and won't easily be undone by these newly revealed facts. "A lie mak…

Conspiracy theory: Autonomous driving is being undermined by traditional car companies who see that if it is successful, it would hugely change personal transportation and greatly reduce total sales of vehicles.

Alternate conspiracy theory: Tesla does not market its cars, while traditional automakers spend billions advertising dollars per year. Reporters work for organizations that rely on advertising.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#57

Post by juve1996 »

epgui wrote: post #39
jcranmer wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> greatly reduce total sales of vehicles. This is one of those things that always struck me as a weird, poor argument... how is autonomous driving supposed to suddenly make everyone want to stop owning their cars and use taxis instead?

When you own a car, you typically only use it a small percentage of the day (it certainly is true of the average owner). When you're offering a ride service, that one car is being utilized a much higher proportion of the day. Ignoring the driver, taxi/ride-hail/autonomous-ride services are much more efficient uses of a vehicle over time. (And this is just a side note, but obviously if you don't have to pay for a huma…

I don't see how that lowers the amount of sales of vehicles. In fact, it seems like vehicles would be used more and need replaced more often.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#58

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

jcranmer wrote: post #32
Smoosh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracy theory: Autonomous driving is being undermined by traditional car companies who see that if it is successful, it would hugely change personal transportation and greatly reduce total sales of vehicles.

> greatly reduce total sales of vehicles. This is one of those things that always struck me as a weird, poor argument... how is autonomous driving supposed to suddenly make everyone want to stop owning their cars and use taxis instead?

If using a taxi becomes cheap and convenient, the need to own a car goes down.

I don't use a car near enough to justify owning one, but have considered getting one just because taxis are unaffordable for any bigger trips and carsharing can be a pain in the ass (mostly having to get to/from the carsharing station, inspecting for damages, and the lack of flexibility).

Solve those problems, and I will actively not want to own. Parking is expensive.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#59

Post by brewdad »

climb_stealth wrote: post #43
jo6gwb wrote: post #15

I'm not sure why they don't explicitly write in the report that the driver may have been trapped in the back seat, and was unable to locate or use the mechanical release to escape. While that wouldn't be a contributing factor to the wreck, it would be a contributing factor the the driver's death, and important for Tesla and their passengers to know about. The report states: The frontal impact with the tree resulted i…

That sounds pretty terrifying in an emergency situation. What is the reason for the rear doors working differently? I can't picture someone referring to their user manual or looking under the seat to open the door when the car is on fire. This reads like a terrible design.

Child safety locks will prevent the rear doors from being opened from the inside, even when unlocked. Perhaps they were engaged either intentionally or by default?

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#60

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

palata wrote: post #42
epgui wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you own a car, you typically only use it a small percentage of the day (it certainly is true of the average owner). When you're offering a ride service, that one car is being utilized a much higher proportion of the day. Ignoring the driver, taxi/ride-hail/autonomous-ride services are much more efficient uses of a vehicle over time. (And this is just a side note, but obviously if you don't have to pay for a huma…

When you own a car, you don't want to wait 20min before it's ready for you. You want to bring it in remote places where it will stay so that you won't have to wait 2h for it to come back. And you want to leave your stuff in it. If you are ready to wait for a car to come pick you up, or to plan your trip based on the schedule of the car, and to pack your stuff in one bag that you can carry along... ... then, my friend…

The wait for an Uber is typically much smaller than the walk to the transit station + wait there (I don't think I've ever waited 20 min), you aren't restricted to one bag, and there is no schedule. The wait would get even smaller if there were 10x as many cars participating on that platform.

Car sharing is inconvenient because you first have to get to the station. Public transport often doesn't take you where you actually need to go, you're stuck to a schedule, you can't transport anything big, and it's often slower than a car. Cheap robotaxis fix that.

More importantly, I think many people have a car because there are some trips that just aren't realistically feasible without, and then they use the car because they already have it, have paid the fixed cost, and it's marginally better than public transport. With cheap robotaxis, they might use public transport for 90% of the trips because now they don't have to choose between owning a car and being unable to do those remaining 10% of trips.

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