Live data from Hacker News

The Future of Thunderbird

blog.thunderbird.net

261–270 of 473 posts

Re: The Future of Thunderbird

#261
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really has. Thunderbird has become slower and slower and prone to lockups. The UI and feature set is still great but the performance is really horrific.

Might it be, in part, due to moving to newer versions of Firefox or Firefox-derived components under the hood? When Thunderbird was starting out, Firefox would have had something like a 10-15Mb memory footprint with no pages loaded and eaten approximately zero processor cycles while idle. It's, um, a lot bigger and hungrier now.

I have never used thunderbird but I am sure a lot changed when when xul went away.

Re: The Future of Thunderbird

#262

Unfortunately, at least for me, I've had to mostly switch away from Thunderbird. It has becoming rather frustratingly slow. For example, if I archive an email, it takes 10 to 15 seconds for this to be reflected in the interface. When I have 50 or so emails to deal with, this adds up to a surprising amount of time, and becomes rather frustrating. (I suspect having large volumes of email is part of the issue.) On the m…

Want to recommend one of those other email clients for Mac? The threading/conversation support is my biggest gripe apart from the slowness. I am also guilty of rarely deleting things. EDITED TO ADD: Using gmail and fastmail. 'nother edit: should deal gracefully with emailing files to myself. C.f the threading in fastmail's webmail, which is ... weird?

MailMate (https://freron.com/)

Re: The Future of Thunderbird

#263
post #192
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. If you want a “pretty” email client go make one and see how it does. Stability is the number one feature I want in a UI. The only other concern is responsiveness. Literally nothing else matters.

> go make one It's not like it's easy. It crossed my mind a few years ago, actually. But why should I when the email client I actually happen to use decided to actually rebuild its interface? I'm not the one who is unhappy, I'm happy either way actually, I could answer "go fork Thunderbird if you are not happy". There was an interesting talk at FOSDEM by OpenProject on how to handle UI revamps [1], there are ways to…

What if I decide to remap your keyboard every 12 months because I think I have a better layout? If you practice for an hour a day you'll adjust in a month! Of course that will go out the window 11 months later, but I will have my promo in by then. Apple literally does this with keyboard shortcuts and UI elements in MacOS. This is what I imagine when I hear someone wants to "revamp" a UI.

In modern software "UI revamp" means turning muscle memory into papercuts.

Mozilla can rebuild the UI without redesigning it. If they need to throw out underlying code to improve performance or maintainability that's fine. But changing UI elements is like renaming a boat. You just don't do it.

Re: The Future of Thunderbird

#264

So much negativity in this thread, jeez. I love current Thunderbird but it undeniably has its issues. Firstly, of course this is subjective, but its UI is starting to look dated. Lots of you are complaining about modern UIs, but I think the designs [0][1] look great and are much more readable than the current design, which looks straight out of Ubuntu 8.04. Then there are some major UX issues, the most obvious one be…

Thanks for sharing, I hadn't seen these.

With all the negative comments in the thread I had expected some kind of massive changes but it basically looks the same. Sure, nitpick about this or that but in the end the overall look remains nearly identical (for calendar, again, havent seen the other screens).

Re: The Future of Thunderbird

#266

Unfortunately, at least for me, I've had to mostly switch away from Thunderbird. It has becoming rather frustratingly slow. For example, if I archive an email, it takes 10 to 15 seconds for this to be reflected in the interface. When I have 50 or so emails to deal with, this adds up to a surprising amount of time, and becomes rather frustrating. (I suspect having large volumes of email is part of the issue.) On the m…

Slowness and memory bloat is the main problem of Thunderbird. I don't know what the cause is, but it is frustrating that there are no full-featured open-source mail apps that have decent performance.

Kmail's UI can be fast, but its IMAP support is so horribly slow and buggy at least for me.

Re: The Future of Thunderbird

#267

After all those horror stories of people getting locked out of Google, I started using Thunderbird as my email backup. Took a while to get all my emails but now that they have been downloaded, I just run it as a backup tool to fetch the emails. If I had to ask, more than improving the UI (which is an initiative I have nothing against), improving the performance (mainly search) should be accorded high priority.

If your concern are backups (only), I think there are better tools for that, such as offlineimap and mbsync.

> If your concern are backups (only), I think there are better tools for that, such as offlineimap and mbsync.

I used to use imapbackup but I wouldn't say they are better tools:

- They rarely support OAUTH directly so it can be a pain to set up with gmail

- You still need a viewer to navigate the backup when you need it (usually a full mail client though there are some lighter maildir frontends)

Re: The Future of Thunderbird

#268
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's also the main problem I have with it. The UI is what it is, but it has the considerable advantage that I'm already used to it. I'm not really clamoring for a different UI, there's bigger problems. If they want to grow the user base (or even maintain it against attrition) then relying on just the current folks isn't enough: you have to get new people to use it. (And hopefully support/donate to it.) Getting ne…

I started using thunderbird half a year ago and like the interface. Sure, there's problems (I haven't encountered a lot of them), but the overall user experience is far better than what I'm used to from other email programs. The only thing that stuck out negatively was when I was searching for an email, in which the way I was wanting to solve it didn't work out as I thought it did. (I was looking for a mail containin…

I've been running Thunderbird in the background without problems the last 15-odd years on whatever computer I had at the time. Still do. No performance problems running 20+ mail accounts with loads and loads of mail. Ofcourse it can be slow if you do things that requires TB to recreate the mail storage but other than that I have no problem opening mail and reading it fast. I'm using both IMAP and POP3 accounts mixed.

I believe there are settings you can run that might create more problems with performance but I haven't touched anything the last 5 years so can't say what it was any more.

Re: The Future of Thunderbird

#269
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a ton of desktop email clients that have that design: Apple Mail, Windows 10/11 Mail application, Outlook, Mailspring, whatever. Of client that have the UI/UX of Thunderbird... well only Thunderbird remained. I get that if you use the email sporadically with only one account, you are better with a client like you described, but at that point you can as well use a webmail. Otherwise if you work with emails,…

You know what? Nothing needs to be pretty. Why stop at work tools? A home is there to let you cook, sleep and live efficiently. No need to be pretty. A city is there to allow you to go from A to B without any fuzz and to provide the essential services. Pretty cities are annoying. I have several accounts and thousands of mails. But I can't see how an efficient tool can't be pretty and how a pretty tool can't be effici…

My home needs to be pretty because fundamentally I am an irrational animal motivated by my emotions. When I sit on my leather couch and look at my house plants and art that makes me feel good. When I come home and find things out of place it makes me feel bad.

A UI revamp is like coming home to a crime scene, or at least a messy kitchen.

Re: The Future of Thunderbird

#270

There's one area where I've always thought Thunderbird should be a cross platform leader and example to everyone: setting Email Client Standards. I spent a lot of time in the anti-phishing/anti-fraud world. During a stint at dmarcian I wrote up an entire proposal that I titled A.P.E.C.S. - Anti-Phishing Email Client Standards. I should probably publish this document at some point since it looks like they've since tak…

> I should probably publish this document at some point

I'd be interested in seeing it. It sounds like a pretty good idea. It's incredible to me how effective even the worst phishing email/sites are and to me that's an indication that not enough is being done to point out clear warning signs to users.

> Phishing sites themselves are all over the place and working with hosting abuse teams to take them down is a gargantuan task. Working with a shortener who's linking to it to take it down would prevent every recipient of the message from being duped.

The URL shorteners can be the worst. They don't seem to care who creates a link to something, and don't do even basic checking of whats at the other end. You'd think a person creating a link to yet another URL shortener would set off major flags, but they don't seem to care.

Same with survey/form sites that keep being hijacked for phishing purposes. They don't bother with even basic checking for scams either. If someone creates a form with a password field that'd be easy to flag for review, but it doesn't happen. I can report a bunch of identical phishing sites that were created with URLs like: random_form_builder_site.com/targetcompanyname001

random_form_builder_site.com/targetcompanyname002

random_form_builder_site.com/targetcompanyname003

and while they'll generally take them down, they'll do nothing to prevent:

random_form_builder_site.com/targetcompanyname004

random_form_builder_site.com/targetcompanyname005

random_form_builder_site.com/targetcompanyname006

from being created. Not checking for targetcompanyname in the url of new forms/surveys, and not bothering to check to see if the 12 new sites someone just created are identical to the last 12 they were asked to disable.

Anything that can be done to help make those sites less attractive to users before they even click the link in the email they got would really help.

Post reply on HN