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Why is remote work seen as a gift?

cdoyle.me

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Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#481

Post by red-iron-pine »

pelasaco wrote: post #478
HDThoreaun wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should be about the value I bring to the company Your salary has never been even related to the value you bring the company. That is just the absolute maximum they're willing to pay. Your salary is the lowest your company thinks they can pay to get a suitable employee. They pay remote workers less because there are remote workers willing to work for less, simple as that.

but that's only maybe true during the hiring process. If you work well, after some months, it will be corrected.

citation needed.

no shortage of threads here or reddit or elsewhere: "new guy got hired and they;re making 10k more than me and I've been here 5 years" and the like.

there is a reason jumping every 2-3 years gives a better raise than sitting in the same job.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#482

Post by nprateem »

malermeister wrote: post #442
nprateem wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's not because there's no point going to the office if your team still WFHs

So you think the solution is to force a bunch of people to hang out with you? I'm sure they'd be thrilled to stop doing what worked for them so as to please you.

Such a tired, lazy retort. Why is there always this false dichotomy?

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#483

Post by scotty79 »

sokoloff wrote: post #459
scotty79 wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None. But the state or even preferably the country should take responsibility for establishing where employee lives and taxing the salary accordingly.

So if I'm in NH and scotty80 and scotty81 agree to work for me for $12/hr and I am structurally precluded from finding out where they live or work, what happens if it turns out that scotty80 is in NH (above minimum wage) and scotty81 is in MA (below minimum wage)? Is it legal?

My idea is that you report to the government that you want to hire me. And I contact the government with the information where I live.

You suggest how much you are willing to pay me to the government. And I get information how much I'll be earning after taxes and required social security fees.

If I don't agree or the amount you proposed is illegally low then I can't work for you until you decide to bump up the salary.

If I agree I start working. You pay to the government the full amount. Government taxes it and transfers the rest to me as a salary.

If you pay too little or too late you are on the hook with the government. But you don't need to know where I live or what the taxes are.

With electronic system the whole procedure of hiring could probably take an afternoon or less and zero knowledge.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#484

Post by epgui »

squokko wrote: post #453
jchw wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it need to be better? Here's my PoV: I want it, and frankly rely on it at this point, and employers want to hire me. If someone was really worth less working remotely, it could be factored into salary. Lo and behold though, I accomplish the same, or possibly more now than, as I ever did, and my salary has not plummeted. Quite the opposite. Again, I want to reiterate: if it really made workers worth less, it…

Sure, I don't have any opposition to companies offering it, or employees demanding it -- supply and demand will take care of that. I'm talking about whether I believe we should be making an effort as a society to push the market in one direction or the other.

Oh, well I'd agree with that position.

I think an assumption that I have is that the balance of supply/demand may be prejudiced against remote work, because it takes time for people to accept or be open to new ways of doing things.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#485

Post by burmanm »

hzay wrote: post #480
burmanm wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly teaching them. "When dad works, don't bother him". And since I do come out of the room in any case often enough (coffee/toilet/eat/etc), they saw me enough often. But it's not like single productive period is a long time, rather it's a patches of smaller events during the day. Of course now that they're bigger, everything is a bit different.

Let me ask this directly. Is your wife watching over the kids while you get productive time? If so, then that's not a luxury many people (including, you know, many wives) with small children have. Hence the comment that you originally replied to makes sense.

Yes, she was on maternity leave (which isn't unusual in Finland and more like a norm).

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#486

Post by jmholla »

DrThunder wrote: post #457
ryandrake wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, I was pretty on the side of the remote work until the pandemic. I don't think it's mentally healthy for most people. I think we would need to somehow separate the mental unhealthiness of remote work from the mental unhealthiness of dealing with a worldwide deadly airborne pandemic. It could be that remote work in and of itself is great, but remote work with the additional mental/emotional toll of a pandemic is…

The pandemic was so bad for mental health due to he fact people were locked down and unable to socialize. If it wasn't for that, the majority of people wouldn't have been affected so badly. It was the social impact and not the disease itself that caused so many problems.

> The pandemic was so bad for mental health due to he fact people were locked down and unable to socialize.

That's what needs to be removed from these calculations. Now, you can have that social life outside of work.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#487

Post by pelasaco »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #481
pelasaco wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but that's only maybe true during the hiring process. If you work well, after some months, it will be corrected.

citation needed. no shortage of threads here or reddit or elsewhere: "new guy got hired and they;re making 10k more than me and I've been here 5 years" and the like. there is a reason jumping every 2-3 years gives a better raise than sitting in the same job.

> new guy got hired and they;re making 10k more than me and I've been here 5 years

Your mistake is to assume that you (being there 5 year) is doing your work well and over the expectations, becoming an important piece to your team. Important enough that your manager wants to secure you as part of the team. Maybe you are just average. Regardless of being 2, 5 or 10 years there.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#488

Post by pawelduda »

newaccount74 wrote: post #148

When you are in the office, the company has almost all your attention. There is almost nothing to distract you from work. When you are at home, there are a million things to distract you. There's laundry that needs to be done, the kitchen cleaned, kids that want to play, there's a full fridge with stuff to make a sandwich, a TV that you can turn on, etc. When you are forced to go to the office, you are forced to take…

> When you are in the office, the company has almost all your attention.

Yeah, the company maybe but not the job to be done

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#489

Post by malermeister »

nprateem wrote: post #482
malermeister wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think the solution is to force a bunch of people to hang out with you? I'm sure they'd be thrilled to stop doing what worked for them so as to please you.

Such a tired, lazy retort. Why is there always this false dichotomy?

How is it a false dichotomy?

People are either allowed to stay home or not.

I don't wanna be forced to go in so other people can feel good about me being there.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#490

Post by eru »

knorker wrote: post #394
eru wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I want to play that game. I want people in India to be paid more, if possible. I want to open that 'can of worms'. The big problem is that labour in India isn't all that productive. Offshoring isn't some magic bullet. Companies have tried that and are still trying. Google, Microsoft etc have offices in India. They also keep their offices in the US and Europe not just out of imaginary obligation to westerners, bu…

Offshoring is not the same thing. There are great people in India. It's just more conducive for them to get better pay if they manage to get an H1B and move to the US. If they could just "work remote", then you (as an American, or at least someone who can and does work in the US? Well, applies to any western country) are no longer competing with "people from India who manage to get an H1B and have a family situation…

I don't work in the US nor Europe.

> Opening up "work from anywhere" is not like offshoring to save costs. More like given two equally valuable people, why should an employer pay a premium to one, just because they chose to live in a higher cost of living country?

Yes, and that's progress! That's good!

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