Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 93 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#61

Post by wnolens »

In the sense that people looking for a new career will move towards non-tech paths instead - hell no. These layoffs are minor.

I think the opposite will become increasingly true: folks that otherwise would not be found in a computer science/engineering undergraduate will find their way to tech.

Software/Tech is incredibly wide and deep. There's need all over the stack, and there is definitely lots of need at the medium-skill level. I spend a lot of time configuring AWS, and running simple db queries. Look at the heaps of programmers who are economically successful in a single framework like React.

I think the field will stratify and there's lots of room in the 50-80k/y range doing useful tech work for businesses in every sector. I can see it in FAANG where there's a clear distinction between those destined for Staff level and invent new things, and those who will plateau at SDE2 but do so much necessary work.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#62

Post by feoren »

No, "learn to code" is now "learn to read".

Long ago, people could get work as a scribe or scrivener -- knowing how to read and write was, on its own, enough to get you a job. As literacy became more prevalent, it wasn't enough to "just read". You had to "read and ____". Similar to business; I would not recommend someone get "just a business degree" so they can apply to any company in the world. I'd recommend they get a "business degree and ____" to target a specific industry or role.

The same is slowly happening with programming. As the spectrum of what "programming" means continues to widen, and as code-literacy becomes more and more common, it's going to be harder to get a job as "just a programmer". So learn to code, And.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#63

Post by feoren »

Loughla wrote: post #47
Zetobal wrote: post #15

Learn to X is always the dumpest way to go about fixing labor shortages. I don't want to know how many 2X year olds will burn out coding just because they actually loath it. If the pay goes down there will be an exodus.

100% accurate. I've worked in higher education for years, and it's a constant drum beat of chasing a world that doesn't exist. 20 years ago, it was just all about going to college. Go to college. Get a degree. Get a good job. That was the path. 10 years ago it became, go to college, but pick the right major. Finish that major. Get a good job. 5 years ago it became, go to college and major in engineering or cs. Finish…

[dead]

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#64

Post by MuffinFlavored »

vbordo wrote: post #34
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who is basically an extremely "toxic capitalist" (to put it simply). He "called" that it wouldn't last that a lot of people were making "big" tech money + not really working 8 hours a day. Maybe that's what this whole "big tech layoff" is. A reset to lower overheated wages. Make 500,000 unemployed programmers compete for paycuts.

Not quite sure why you're getting downvoted. Might be due to your friend's unsubstantiated claim tech workers (on average) are overpaid while underdelivering. However, the core observation is reasonable. Layoffs create desperation in the labor pool which is likely to drive median tech wages down. This benefits companies opex long-term as they restart the hiring cycle over the next couple quarters. Doubtful we're seei…

> Might be due to your friend's unsubstantiated claim tech workers

In his defense, he does own a small tech startup ($1m/yr I think?) and that has like 10 employees (3-4 engineers), so he has his finger on the pulse (or at least he thinks he does) when it comes to tech hiring.

That's a big problem, right? You think his claims are unsubstantiated, he thinks he knows it all and he's seen it with his own eyes. Who is telling the truth?

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#65

Post by jstx1 »

feoren wrote: post #62

No, "learn to code" is now "learn to read". Long ago, people could get work as a scribe or scrivener -- knowing how to read and write was, on its own, enough to get you a job. As literacy became more prevalent, it wasn't enough to "just read". You had to "read and ____". Similar to business; I would not recommend someone get "just a business degree" so they can apply to any company in the world. I'd recommend they ge…

While some stuff is slowly becoming more accessible, the deeper end of technology gets deeper and deeper - complex systems with many moving parts operating on many different levels of abstraction.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#66

Post by chad_stevens »

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #60
pwinnski wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your friend has bought into the hype, as a lot of people have. There are very few people making "big tech money" who are not also putting in very long hours. They exist, but are often/usually in the (long) process of being "managed out." There's no doubt in my mind that a lot of this is a power-play by profitable companies to push back against developers who've collectively gained more power at the negotiating table.…

Dividends/buy-backs and layoffs are derived from the same concept. The company has excess resources they do not plan to use in the future. If you have excess cash, return it to the shareholder. If you have excess employees, reduce head count. It means the company doesn't want to build anything at the moment (for various reasons include prep for a downturn).

You should read this article,

https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2021/08/the-value-of-noth...

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#67

Post by MuffinFlavored »

bunbunbun wrote: post #48
vbordo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite sure why you're getting downvoted. Might be due to your friend's unsubstantiated claim tech workers (on average) are overpaid while underdelivering. However, the core observation is reasonable. Layoffs create desperation in the labor pool which is likely to drive median tech wages down. This benefits companies opex long-term as they restart the hiring cycle over the next couple quarters. Doubtful we're seei…

Agreed but also it’s weird how a lot of lay-off %s are 7% +\-1 though?

It's like one CEO did it and it opened the door for it to be socially acceptable climate wise for everybody to follow suit.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#68

Post by khmii »

shadowgovt wrote: post #18

Trades are a great idea. ... I don't think I'd specifically recommend "Learn to drive a big rig" though. In addition to the industry itself being a real bad deal for vehicle operators ( https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/09/business/truck-driver-sho... ), it's the segment of the transportation sector centered in the crosshairs of disruption-through-automation. The self-driving vehicle companies that laid off were, broad…

I have actually looked at a CDL out of curiosity. I can't imagine not getting a CDL right now because of automation. I think this is a much harder problem than it seems at the edges, especially in poor winter conditions. Most people would get sick of trucking before they are automated to the unemployment line.

The bigger issue really is that trucking is a bad deal. Super dangerous job that doesn't pay much of anything for the hours worked while your health is basically destroyed from sitting.

Stories from new big rig drivers are pretty terrifying. It sounds like the first year is spent hoping everyday that you don't kill someone as you learn to handle this 80,000lb monstrosity.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#69

Post by floxy »

nicenewtemp84 wrote: post #9
agentwiggles wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have trouble buying this, having seen the salaries being offered by local government agencies looking for devs. I guess if the layoffs depress wages across the board some of it might start to look a _little_ more reasonable, but even in a market that's nowhere near the insanity of big tech salaries, the government salaries on offer are laughably low.

I know people that work in tech at decent companies that can't buy a house. Every non major metro area mechanic, school teacher, city employee I know has a nice home. People should really consider doing lower paying boring work in places your mortgage can be $2000 a month.

Est. payment: $1,601/mo, 4bd, 2ba, 2,478 sq. ft. -- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/801-14th-St-Stanton-NE-68...

Est. payment: $953/mo, 3bd, 2ba, 3,192 sq. ft., 1.31 acres -- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1950-River-Rd-Forest-City...

Est. payment: $1,097/mo, 3bd, 2ba, 2,326 sq. ft. -- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/301-S-Warren-St-Watertown...

Est. payment: $1,139/mo, 4bd, 2ba, 2,148 sq. ft. -- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/522-Clifty-St-Harriman-TN...

Est. payment: $887/mo, 4bd, 2ba, 3,123 sq. ft. -- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/172-Nebraska-Ave-SW-Huron...

Est. payment: $1,107/mo, 3bd, 2ba, 2,957 sq. ft. -- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/415-W-Parrish-Ave-Owensbo...

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#70

Post by f8o »

feoren wrote: post #62

No, "learn to code" is now "learn to read". Long ago, people could get work as a scribe or scrivener -- knowing how to read and write was, on its own, enough to get you a job. As literacy became more prevalent, it wasn't enough to "just read". You had to "read and ____". Similar to business; I would not recommend someone get "just a business degree" so they can apply to any company in the world. I'd recommend they ge…

I'm not sure about these comparisons because even with more and more people learning scripting and/or a few DSLs for their industries Software Engineering is still a career. Deeper knowledge and experience matters.
Post reply on HN