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“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

seymourhersh.substack.com

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Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#921

Post by pillefitz »

ROTMetro wrote: post #391
pillefitz wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not far fetched to believe the US did it - or any Eastern European country, for that matter.

It's really not fat fetched to believe the US didn't do it. Check and mate to your powerful argument.

I assumed people read the article or any of the comments. In short: Become the EU's main supplier of gas, while weakening Russia. What's not to like? All other actors' benefits pale in comparison. Hell, the US killed millions in for-profit wars, which is a generally accepted fact. Still think it's far-fetched?

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#922

Post by _dujt »

dang wrote: post #200
torstenvl wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dan, I respectfully ask you to reconsider. This is a poorly-sourced speculative piece of propaganda and clearly goes against site guidelines. You repeat, above, that HN is not for nationalist flamewar, and requires substance. But this post is nationalist flamewar and isn't substantive. Allowing it while shutting down similar content from the opposite perspective is... unsettling.

I'll read the article and reconsider. I haven't had time to even look at it yet. The moderation call here isn't based on agreeing, disagreeing, liking, or disliking. It just seems like an obvious interesting event, that's all. Edit: Ok, I've read the first half and looked over the second half, and I think the moderation call was the correct one. Not saying this to pile on; I just wanted to report back.

> I haven’t had time to even look at it yet.

Yikes.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#924

Post by ecf »

joenot443 wrote: post #773
threeseed wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is Hacker News not Political Conspiracy News. For every one of these posts that are manually forced to stay on the front page we lose an actual relevant, technical post that we never see and get a chance to comment on.

Given there are 500 comments already and more to come, do you not think it’s been demonstrated the community has an interest in discussing it?

I’d argue most of those 500 comments are comments wondering why in the world this wasn’t deleted/flagged instantly.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#925

Post by xg15 »

xg15 wrote: post #576
0xDEF wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I find it extremely jarring how many reputable western media outlets immediately jumped to the conclusion that Russia did it Do you have proof to back up this claim? A more correct observation is that Western media didn't blame any single entity but has the attention span of a goldfish and forgot about this incident after a week or two.

I live in Germany and my proof is that a few days after the explosions, I could read/watch Spiegel, Tagesschau and other outlets quoting speculations about Russia as "expert opinions", while discussing speculations about the US only in context of "russian accusations". A Spiegel article from september 28, two days after the incident: https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/nord-stream-spekulationen-ueb... It links to a Times…

Spiegel is now reporting about Hersh's article as well. They seem more interested in dismantling Hersh however than commenting on any of his claims in detail: https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/russland-duma-sprecher-wjatsc...

Other outlets seem to be commenting a bit more neutral: https://www.stern.de/politik/ausland/nord-stream-2--usa-soll...

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#926

Post by dathinab »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #704
dathinab wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much any country bordering the baltic sea + US + China + Ukrain have groups which a) have interest in it being destroyed b) have the capabilities to do so.

I don’t reckon that the leaks are accidental either. The Biden Administration waited until the tide of public opinion turned further against Russia. They waited until the rest of the West had committed MBTs to Ukraine before allowing this to be leaked. There’s a message being sent here.

I don't think so.

Assuming this is an blog from Sy Hersh and it's not made up by Sy Hersh and it's not made up by the person Sy Hersh interviewed (all of which might be possible and can't be easily claimed to be unlikely (or likely)):

The US still doesn't need to send a message now and it's still not profitable for them for the article to go public now.

More likely is that both Sy Hersh and the informant didn't want to risk it before. E.g. due to fear of personal consequences or due to fear of causing political consequences in ways they don't want to cause.

Wrt. the the normal citizens in the EU the US doesn't need to send a message, nor would it be received. Wrt. politicians messages already have been send clear enough.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#927

Post by ecf »

kersplody wrote: post #387

If any part of Hersh's claims are true, which I doubt, the U.S. Senate and House U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence will demand immediate classified hearings with DoD & IC since this was done all wrong. If they don't demand them (SSCI is still rather bipartisan) within 24-48 hours, you know it's complete BS.

It would be a shame if any real-world decisions where made based on the validity of an opinion piece without any, and I mean ANY, substantial evidence.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#929

Post by licebmi__at__ »

peppermint_gum wrote: post #764
ravi-delia wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it happened it was clear that the US, Russia, and Poland were likely the only suspects, except they're all really weird! The US absolutely has not made return on investment, which was obviously going to happen because shipping it over is much more expensive than the pipeline, and in the meantime Biden has to deal with increased gas prices. His incentives go the other way on this. But why the fuck would Russia do…

> But why the fuck would Russia do it? Why do so many people act as if it's so unlikely that Russia did it? They had the least to lose, their relations with the west were already ruined at that point and such an incident couldn't make them any worse. What would be their motive? Before the explosion, Russia had illegally shut down the pipeline. Now that the pipeline has exploded, they have plausible deniability and th…

>They had the least to lose, their relations with the west were already ruined at that point and such an incident couldn't make them any worse.

>Now that the pipeline has exploded, they have plausible deniability and they can say it's not their fault the gas isn't flowing.

How the hell thinking they have nothing to lose and also worried about a contract at the same time sound or consistent?

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#930

Post by miguelazo »

drewda wrote: post #541
mmastrac wrote: post #97

It's a great story, but it's all unsourced and could be a decent Tom Clancy story at best. You could probably write a similar one with Russia or German agents as the key players and be just as convincing. The only anchor in reality appears to be Biden suggesting that they knew how to take it out which seems like a pretty weak place to build a large story. What I find particularly odd is that this entire thing appears…

Seymour Hersh has decades of credibility from reporting the My Lai Massacre to the abuses at Abu Graib. But he does often rely on sources who remain anonymous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh#Use_of_anonymous... I did find it interesting in that Wikipedia article to read that The New Yorker's editor insists on knowing the identify of all of the anonymous sources that Hersh has used when his reporting is p…

I imagine there are very good reasons why he can’t trust the editors of certain publications for certain stories. Many of them are among the “power elite” who collaborate with the security state, whether directly or indirectly. There’s a long, storied history of that.
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