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Wikipedia to Shut Down on Wednesday to Protest SOPA

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Re: Wikipedia to Shut Down on Wednesday to Protest SOPA

#111

Post by sequoia »

mduerksen wrote: post #100

The train has been stopped, but it's still on track. Time to push it into the other direction and maybe even let it derail spectaculously. But there is more needed than raising awareness with this blackout. This awareness should be exploited (in a good way) appropriately. - We as those that do understand the issue have the responsibility to explain the problem to the majority. I still find it very difficult to effect…

"The USA still is the most influential country in the world, and this fight is international, just as the web is international."

As a US citizen, I didn't want to be the one to say this (in response to e.g. https://twitter.com/#!/foxhuntingx/statuses/1589645062094274... ) because it might sound arrogant, but seriously, Herr Duerksen is correct: People in Australia, UK, and other non-US places affected by the en.wikipedia blackout can cover their eyes and ears and pretend SOPA doesn't affect them but I think this is a ridiculous stance.

Yes, much of the world looks to/points at the US for various speech &c. policies. Furthermore, much of the Anglophone world uses US internet services and products that would likely be affected by SOPA (facebook, youtube, reddit, en.wikipedia, 4chan, etc.). If it passes, SOPA probably will affect you whether you live in Boston or Brisbane.

There are many people who seem to hard time grasping the fact that US law applies to US sites, regardless of what country you are in (see: "Google turned off my 10 year old's Gmail even tho I live in the UK and it's a US law!!! US law doesn't govern me!!" does govern Google, which operates out of the US).

This fact is a good argument for creating competing services not based in the US (even tho it'd probably be illegal for us 'murkins to use them :/ ).

Re: Wikipedia to Shut Down on Wednesday to Protest SOPA

#112

Post by philwelch »

larsbot wrote: post #32

To me, the real lesson from SOPA and PIPA is that the tech industry needs to spend a lot more money bribing (oh, excuse me, lobbying) senators and representatives to counter all the money flowing from the entertainment industry. Also, it's an embarrassment that BOTH of California's senators not only support PIPA, they are listed at co-sponsors.

They're both Hollywood's senators, not Silicon Valley's.

Re: Wikipedia to Shut Down on Wednesday to Protest SOPA

#115

Post by tobylane »

sequoia wrote: post #111
mduerksen wrote: post #100

The train has been stopped, but it's still on track. Time to push it into the other direction and maybe even let it derail spectaculously. But there is more needed than raising awareness with this blackout. This awareness should be exploited (in a good way) appropriately. - We as those that do understand the issue have the responsibility to explain the problem to the majority. I still find it very difficult to effect…

"The USA still is the most influential country in the world, and this fight is international, just as the web is international." As a US citizen, I didn't want to be the one to say this (in response to e.g. https://twitter.com/#!/foxhuntingx/statuses/1589645062094274... ) because it might sound arrogant, but seriously, Herr Duerksen is correct: People in Australia, UK, and other non-US places affected by the en.wikip…

Often when other countries take the US's lead it's for an advantage, or by force (see Bush-Blair and the recent Spanish thing). I'd be interested to know what the international pressure people are doing now or after Sopa is abandoned, if they still try to get other countries to do something similar.

Re: Wikipedia to Shut Down on Wednesday to Protest SOPA

#116

Post by vaksel »

sequoia wrote: post #59
vaksel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should capitalize on the momentum and create an organization that can get everyone mobilized quickly in the future. Politicians kiss up to tiny groups just because they are somewhat influential...think of billions going to subsidies for farmers or even tiny 1 issue groups. Surely together, the tech community is much more influential than them.

I think you're describing moveon.org. EDIT: I was unclear. "create an organization that can get everyone mobilized quickly in the future." From the wiki page of moveon.org: "They started by passing around a petition asking Congress to 'censure President Clinton and move on', as opposed to impeaching him." It was a single-issue online activism group that grew into an organization known for quickly mobilizing lots of p…

not exactly, I'm talking more about a group like the NRA or AIPAC or NCAAP...something powerful enough where every presidential candidate has to come in and kiss up to get the group's approval.

Something where a candidate getting rated a C or D or F by the group, means the kiss of death in politics.

And something, with the following to get mobilized quickly to knee cap any bad legislation before it can even get out of committee.

The tech industry makes up a huge part of the GDP...but there is very little unified influence for people to respect it.

Re: Wikipedia to Shut Down on Wednesday to Protest SOPA

#117

Post by cgag »

nekojima wrote: post #106
EGreg wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what sucks. Everyone you pick from (except Ron Paul probably) doesn't really represent you. I think Obama had really good intentions, but then he ran up against reality aka Congress.

I can not imagine anyway in which Ron Paul could ever "represent" me.

I don't think he represents me, but I think he'd actually represent the values of the people who vote for him, which I think is more than I can say about any other candidates.

Re: Wikipedia to Shut Down on Wednesday to Protest SOPA

#118

Post by bugsbunnyak »

fjarlq wrote: post #99
badclient wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd reckon most Americans, as guarded as they may be about politicians, would take the word of the office of a Congressman. It's crazy how easily people buy into things because it comes from a supposedly official source.

Really? With Congress at less than 10% approval, I would hope the people who are actually concerned enough to call would be less than fully trusting.

Congress as an institution has <10% approval, but most individual congressniks will keep on getting re-elected. "All politics is local", etc. It's never "your" congressnik, except in cases of infidelity or some other egregious media-hounded event.

Re: Wikipedia to Shut Down on Wednesday to Protest SOPA

#119

Post by Natsu »

mduerksen wrote: post #100

The train has been stopped, but it's still on track. Time to push it into the other direction and maybe even let it derail spectaculously. But there is more needed than raising awareness with this blackout. This awareness should be exploited (in a good way) appropriately. - We as those that do understand the issue have the responsibility to explain the problem to the majority. I still find it very difficult to effect…

I agree. We need to be the first one to inform people about this legislation and the threat it poses to the internet. We shouldn't waste this opportunity to do so, or they will restart the legislation and sneak it in somewhere whenever we let our guard down.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I wonder how we can push back, too. I've heard the idea of a Constitutional amendment floated around, but what would it say? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of any blacklist, or prohibiting freedom of association online; or abridging the freedom to connect to other countries, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances online."? Or perhaps, "The right of the people to be secure in their computers, passwords, access tokens, and personal data, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons, data or things to be seized."

Those aren't really serious suggestions, but I am concerned about things like our government setting up national blacklists, even "voluntary" ones, choosing who we can and cannot communicate with online and trawling through people's data wholesale, without first demonstrating probable cause.

Re: Wikipedia to Shut Down on Wednesday to Protest SOPA

#120

Post by Natsu »

artursapek wrote: post #60

I'm tired of these acronyms, it got confusing today. Are politicians just trying to smuggle it through under a different name at this point? I can't think of a name from recent events with more negative connotations than SOPA, which seems to be why it was abandoned. Are these anti-SOPA messages worth the cost of downtime at this point?

We still need to inform people about the issue and it's better if we're the first people to inform them. Because we know they'll try again later, we need to remain vigilant and prepare for next time. It's much too early to relax. That's exactly what they want us to do.
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