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Why is remote work seen as a gift?

cdoyle.me

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Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#371

Post by rcme »

fleddr wrote: post #339

The "return to the office" move is largely management/extrovert bias. Managers collaborate all day long, it's what they do, whilst "workers" tend to be overwhelmed by the many meetings. Further, extroverts get energy out of being around people. Another factor is that some (many) managers frankly have no idea what their employees do. Physical presence management is the coping strategy. That being said, I do agree that…

> "It doesn’t matter where you work, as long as you get the work done."

This sentiment is weird to me. When people express this, I think they have a myopic view on work. Like they view work as a series of JIRA tickets that need to be closed out. As a senior leader, one of your jobs is to teach the younger folks how to do their jobs efficiently. Your personal output is not that important. You are there to be a force multiplier. Teaching is much easier in person.

It's like people who hate the interruption of a colleague sending a Slack message. Yes, such an interruption is slightly annoying, but part of your job is to help other people. Unblocking someone is most certainly more productive than whatever you were doing individually.

Ultimately, very few things are built solely by an individual. "Doing work" is mostly about collaboration if you want to build anything substantial.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#372

Post by ghaff »

pydry wrote: post #236
ericmay wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m really surprised that nobody has set up address as a service yet so that you can claim for example to live in New York by virtue of an address auto command “a New York salary”.

Why bother? If somebody wants to pay you less because you live in upstate NY rather than Manhattan just reject them and move on. If the reason is bullshit, there's no need to bullshit back. If the reason isn't bullshit (e.g. coz they want you in their Manhattan office on a moment's notice) then having a virtual address won't help.

Or, for a different perspective, someone won't pay you a premium because you want to live in Manhattan because they don't actually care where in the country you live.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#373

Post by DiggyJohnson »

monkeynotes wrote: post #307
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What annoys me the most is that there are still companies out there stating that remote is "complicated". It's different, and you need to adjust your processes, but it's not "complicated". I’ve worked remote and managed remote teams for a long time. I would say it is indeed more complicated. You may not struggle with remote work and may do fine interacting remotely, but that’s not true for a lot of people. It’s ver…

It isn't more complicated, it is just different. Here, let me hire for an office instead... "You may not struggle with office work and may do fine interacting in person, but that’s not true for a lot of people." I have people who do far better at home than in the office, and some on the other end of the spectrum. People come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and finding the right people is the same challenge regardles…

> finding the right people is the same challenge regardless.

Are you claiming that the complexity of managing in-office is usually, roughly the same as managing remote teams? I'm asking towards magnitude/degree, not if both are sometimes true.

If not, you are stating the obvious: "People come in all sorts of shapes and sizes"

In my experience, more people struggle with remote than in-office. I've found a lot of satisfaction in returning to a primarily in-person team for this reason. But that's just my experience, an anecdote. Not everyone should be like me, and I'm not saying everyone should return to the office or that WFH is bad. What I am frustrated about is that it seems like many people take dogmatic pro-WFH positions and do not acknowledge the nuance of these issues.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#374

Post by [deleted] »

mettamage wrote: post #201
lordnacho wrote: post #8

It's framed as a gift in order to manipulate the negotiating position. The fact is both employer and employee benefit from it, but if the employer can emphasize the benefits to the employee they can extract a bit of value from the relationship.

IMO in today's culture it is a gift. It's a gift in the sense that most companies aren't willing to do it. My quality of life being a digital nomad because of it (+ 4 days a week instead of 5) has shot up drastically.

[deleted]

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#375

Post by andrei_says_ »

fleddr wrote: post #339

The "return to the office" move is largely management/extrovert bias. Managers collaborate all day long, it's what they do, whilst "workers" tend to be overwhelmed by the many meetings. Further, extroverts get energy out of being around people. Another factor is that some (many) managers frankly have no idea what their employees do. Physical presence management is the coping strategy. That being said, I do agree that…

Corporations consistently try to outsource everyone’s position. It’s an ongoing process.

Meanwhile I just replaced a software vendor in China with one from the US. 70% more expensive, but also cheaper in terms of rework, code quality, deep understanding of the subject matter and care. Oh, and meetings during sane working hours are understated.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#376

Post by nprateem »

baxtr wrote: post #347
pmoriarty wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get my sense of belonging with my friends and family. I don't feel a need to bond with the other office drones.

This sounds like you're ok to spend 8h of your waking time with people you don't really care about. I prefer to spend my working time AND leisure time with people I care about.

You can choose your friends but not your colleagues

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#377

Post by mylons »

MrGilbert wrote: post #25

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

where do you live that electricity is expensive enough that your work setup is a concern?

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#378

Post by thinknubpad »

baxtr wrote: post #347
pmoriarty wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get my sense of belonging with my friends and family. I don't feel a need to bond with the other office drones.

This sounds like you're ok to spend 8h of your waking time with people you don't really care about. I prefer to spend my working time AND leisure time with people I care about.

I don't follow. If you're working remotely, you don't need to spend 8h of your waking time with other office drones. You can spend it near people you care about, interacting with your coworkers briefly as needed.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#379

Post by cwp »

It seems to me that "remote work" is actually two things that get conflated all the time. One is what this article talks about, which is flexible office work. You work out of an office, but you have the flexibility to work from other locations sometimes. The other is working from another state or another country, and only seeing coworkers at infrequent in-person meetings that require travel.

These are very very different situations, with completely different implications for management, compensation, infrastructure, productivity etc. Just about anything you can say about one doesn't apply to the other.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#380

Post by lampshades »

rr888 wrote: post #348
lampshades wrote: post #314

I wish I had an office to go to. I never leave my house anymore and it is becoming very very old. Before everyone says, “oh, go get some hobbies and live your life, work isn’t here for your social life,” understand that I have young children and no free time. I am nearing middle age in a city I moved to for work. I don’t have the base level of social interaction most people inherit by birth or school and no time to b…

I got a job back where everyone is in the office 4/5 days a week. Its great I love it, its really annoying when someone works from home a day and you can just go over problems. Look for jobs like this, they're still out there.

Yeah, but then I lose my remote SF salary. Regardless, I have thought a lot about doing this and might still.
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