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Gitlab to lay off 7% of staff

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Re: Gitlab to lay off 7% of staff

#201

Post by napsec »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #197
jlmorton wrote: post #190

> The current macroeconomic environment is tough No, it isn't, and it's embarrassing at this point to continue insisting this. The macroeconomic environment is good, particularly in the United States. Business investment is growing at 3% a quarter (annualized), which is better than the average over the past decade. Employment is growing rapidly. Inflation has been tame over the past six months. And wages are growing…

The current macroeconomic environment is tough if you have deeply negative cash-flow (most of tech).

Yup, this is it for GitLab. They've never been profitable. I'm honestly surprised they went this long without layoffs.

Re: Gitlab to lay off 7% of staff

#202

Post by synergy20 »

jlmorton wrote: post #190

> The current macroeconomic environment is tough No, it isn't, and it's embarrassing at this point to continue insisting this. The macroeconomic environment is good, particularly in the United States. Business investment is growing at 3% a quarter (annualized), which is better than the average over the past decade. Employment is growing rapidly. Inflation has been tame over the past six months. And wages are growing…

IT industry has benefited the most from COVID along with drug companies, due to that, many if not all of them over hired by like 20% or much more, that's the main reason they're cutting ~10% across the board now when COVID goes away, it's a normal business boom and bust cycle decision to me.

Even though the macro economy are not bad or just fine, that still can't justify the crazy hiring those companies did in the last 3 years, thus the lay-offs.

On top of that, we have been in booming cycle since 2008, which is a long stretch, some adjustment is due.

Re: Gitlab to lay off 7% of staff

#203

Post by xyzelement »

anon20230209 wrote: post #176
xyzelement wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I worked at a Citadel like fund and that's the vibe. The calculus was like this - I'd rather risk being fired than work in a place where low performers are cozy. The reality is that working at a place like that or a FAANG for just a few years sets you up for a great career no matter what happens. So even if you get fired after a few years you are still better off. It's good to have coworkers who can think ra…

I bet people like that drift into voluntary unpaid overtime.

Or, equivalently, "people like that are paid a lot and are engrossed in their careers."

When someone makes $500k+, what does "unpaid overtime" even mean?

Re: Gitlab to lay off 7% of staff

#204

Post by Aperocky »

jlmorton wrote: post #190

> The current macroeconomic environment is tough No, it isn't, and it's embarrassing at this point to continue insisting this. The macroeconomic environment is good, particularly in the United States. Business investment is growing at 3% a quarter (annualized), which is better than the average over the past decade. Employment is growing rapidly. Inflation has been tame over the past six months. And wages are growing…

All of that looks good but the current rate is at 4.5% with expectation to continue to rise.

That is the true underpinning of the economy right there. If everything else remained the same but rate is at 2% steady there is probably going to be a hiring crunch like we had in 2021.

Re: Gitlab to lay off 7% of staff

#205

Post by mikepurvis »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #178
djkivi wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way you can safely pull off layoffs is if you ensure that anything you do in the company requires the experience of a boot camp. That means that everyone is fungible and you can easily swap them. This is an interesting way to think of the Leetcode style interview. If you don't require any particular experience and you have built your company's systems in a way that any "competent" developer can join and be…

This is why React is so popular; not because it is inherently good or performance or has great DX but because of how easy it is to swap one so-so React dev for another so-so React dev.

Cynically, aren’t corporate blub languages like Java and Go kind of built on the same notion? That is, they intentionally limit the amount of complexity possible so that there is a low ceiling for mastery and workers are interchangeable.

Re: Gitlab to lay off 7% of staff

#206

Post by ozim »

jlmorton wrote: post #190

> The current macroeconomic environment is tough No, it isn't, and it's embarrassing at this point to continue insisting this. The macroeconomic environment is good, particularly in the United States. Business investment is growing at 3% a quarter (annualized), which is better than the average over the past decade. Employment is growing rapidly. Inflation has been tame over the past six months. And wages are growing…

I saw that in one place I was working - macroeconomic environment was always tough for them. Like 2014-2016 was not global depression and it was long past 2008 but somehow they were still in depression.

Re: Gitlab to lay off 7% of staff

#207

Post by lelanthran »

whatever1 wrote: post #151
softwaredoug wrote: post #63

Listened to a great podcast about layoffs yesterday ( https://hbr.org/podcast/2023/02/why-many-companies-get-layof... ) The takeaway is that layoffs are extremely trust destroying for employees NOT laid off, and in the end not clear they're a financial net positive. Both with direct and indirect costs (lack of engagement from employees, etc).

It takes long time for the layoff effects to hit the company. The main effect is that you lose the trust of the top performers. These will be the in the lookout for new opportunities the day after the layoffs are done. If you cut 10%, expect 10% from the top to flee within a couple of years. The second effect is related to the fact that companies usually target older people with expensive jobs. In an a big org these…

> The only way you can safely pull off layoffs is if you ensure that anything you do in the company requires the experience of a boot camp. That means that everyone is fungible and you can easily swap them.

Yes, and that's the number one thing successful small business owners learn. The ones who don't learn this aren't successful.

You want as many of your staff as possible to be easily replaced. If you're running a restaurant, do you really want the success of your restaurant to hinge on a single talented chef?

Nope. You make sure that there's a process so that another few chefs can drop in quickly without changing the menu or the quality of the food. All the other kitchen staff don't do "complicated", they follow instructions.

If the business depends on having developers that are in the top 5% (say, one of the criteria to working on the code is understanding Haskell with Monads), the business is at constant risk because the developers are not easily replaceable.

Re: Gitlab to lay off 7% of staff

#208

Post by napsec »

softwaredoug wrote: post #186
whatever1 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes long time for the layoff effects to hit the company. The main effect is that you lose the trust of the top performers. These will be the in the lookout for new opportunities the day after the layoffs are done. If you cut 10%, expect 10% from the top to flee within a couple of years. The second effect is related to the fact that companies usually target older people with expensive jobs. In an a big org these…

> The second effect is related to the fact that companies usually target older people with expensive jobs. In an a big org these are the wizards who have the unwritten cookbooks in their brains. When they leave en masse, a lot of the organizational memory is gone, and expensive operational mistakes of the past are forgotten. These have longer effects that will haunt the company for many years. Is this true this round…

Companies have always preferred to hire experienced ICs. They hired juniors because they couldn't find or afford more senior people. It does seem that a lot of juniors are being impacted. But the hiring front likely reflects the fact that there are now more senior folks in the market, and likely that they can offer lower salaries since job seekers have less leverage.

Re: Gitlab to lay off 7% of staff

#209

Post by Aperocky »

johngladtj wrote: post #143
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible how submissive these companies act to capital.

The companies belong to "capital", it would be far more distressing if they weren't doing what it's owners want them to do.

Funny though, since Meta is actually fully controlled by Zuck. He wanted the metaverse and $40B buyback, otherwise he could just simply not.

Re: Gitlab to lay off 7% of staff

#210

Post by ibejoeb »

iamflimflam1 wrote: post #156
iends wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these massive FAANG companies are anywhere near crashing.

Exactly this - if you're still making massive profits then layoffs are unnecessary. You could just instigate a hiring freeze and let natural attrition run its course. But that would involve having some balls and managing a business in a way that is good for everyone.

When all of these companies act together to influence the labor market, they can subsequently cut long-term costs due to the natural suppression it effects on wages. I'm seeing very significant reductions.
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