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Why is remote work seen as a gift?

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Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#291

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #187
interactivecode wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

though you have to admit in basically all situations the employer has more leverage than a single employee.

This depends on the worker... if we're talking about a job that 'anyone' can do, sure... worker is replaced within a week, and the worker might need more than a week to find a new job. But a professional in a small team, usually witha bus factor of 1? This means a hard time finding a new employee + months of training, while the old worker probably found a new job before they even quit at the first one.

But if the current employee turned around and asked for double their wage their current employer would say no - they have leverage in that they can walk away and it would cause a lot of hardship for the company in the short term, but it's amazing how little the company is willing to part with to ensure that that employee stays.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#292

Post by gardenhedge »

ejb999 wrote: post #246
natymad wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- You can easily steal code - if you were working on a company laptop with USB device protection (can't connect drives to transfer without approval) and heavy website moderation (can't send code to yourself), leaking code would prove way more difficult. Compare that to just copy+paste on your personal computer. (ofc it's possible to steal from company laptops too, but you'll leave a very visible trail). - You're a se…

Don't kid yourself, there is nothing you can do to prevent people from 'stealing' code they are working on if they are working from home or any other place where someone is not looking over their shoulder 100% of the time. There are reasons to force people to work on a corporate machine, preventing them from stealing code is not one of them.

How would people steal code if they're on a corporate laptop and a VPN that blocks & tracks?

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#293

Post by kitsunesoba »

Agentlien wrote: post #259
senttoschool wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many individual contributors are not very good and mostly overrate their own ability to be productive while working from home.

I'm sceptical towards this. I know my own productivity has measurably improved since I started working from home - mainly from the calmer work environment and lack of distractions. When performing recent post-mortems it also became clear that when the whole studio was unexpectedly forced to work remotely, productivity overall slightly increased despite some initial concerns about adapting our workflows and communicat…

> I'm sceptical towards this. I know my own productivity has measurably improved since I started working from home - mainly from the calmer work environment and lack of distractions.

Also, no need to sit there staring at the screen trying to look like you’re doing something useful after your brain has hit its limit on contiguous productive hours. You can instead get up and go do chores or go on a walk or something, give your head some breathing room, and then come back with something of a second wind in your sails which carries you through the end of the work day.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#294

Post by gardenhedge »

newaccount74 wrote: post #148

When you are in the office, the company has almost all your attention. There is almost nothing to distract you from work. When you are at home, there are a million things to distract you. There's laundry that needs to be done, the kitchen cleaned, kids that want to play, there's a full fridge with stuff to make a sandwich, a TV that you can turn on, etc. When you are forced to go to the office, you are forced to take…

I'd imagine most people's distraction is on their phone.. which they have in the office.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#295

Post by seydor »

lbriner wrote: post #163

I wish people would stop posting articles that imply that remote working is somehow objectively better when it has already been made more than clear that it doesn't work well for everyone. I really miss the contact from the office but since most people don't go in any more, it is not worth much of my time to travel there. Yes, we employ some people fully remotely, which is fine because that's what we knew at the time…

> I really miss the contact from the office but since most people don't go in any more, it is not worth much of my time to travel there.

So you are saying that working from office is objectively worse.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#296

Post by bayesian_horse »

MrGilbert wrote: post #25

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

The cost of living isn't the employer's problem, it's the employees. The cost of living can eventually drive up wages, but only in so far as other regions draw away labor with a better wage to cost ratio.

An employer, especially one that isn't just a Human being but a company, will only pay you enough to make you sign and incentivize you to work. They don't care at all how you make your living.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#297

Post by cj »

Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #266
cj wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run a remote-first company, and this is basically how we do it. We don't give people different offers based on where they say they live. Rather, we have a salary range for a job, and we look for people who are attracted by that salary range. This usually means people in SF, NYC, and other high COL cities disqualify themselves, so we end up hiring many people outside of tech hubs. In other words, if you simply stop…

One thing I don't like that is a bit specific to my own situation about most companies that aren't really remote first, but switched to it due to circumstance is that to them remote means - "you will literally always be located at XYZ address and do all your work from there". I have my home address, but I actually only spend maybe 4-6 months of the year physically located there. This kind of pisses off most employers…

> A situation like this where the salary doesn't really depend on location so it wouldn't be treated like I'm actively trying to game anything would actually be preferred in my situation, and to many others I know as well.

Exactly. We've had multiple employees move to different cities/states during their tenure. That wasn't a problem with us (from an employer perspective) and there was also no expectation that salary would be adjusted in response to a move, since location wasn't factored into the original offer in the first place.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#298

Post by brookst »

MrGilbert wrote: post #25

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

The cost of living thing is a mess. I think it will get sorted out as it becomes clear remote workers can and do still get offers. The current thinking seems to be “if you live in a low cost area, that means there is no competition for you”. Which used to be true, and is not true.

And there are tons of just dumb things in remote work policy today. My company does cost of living adjustment based on the state you’re in. So if you were to move to a high cost city in a low cost state (Bozeman, MT), it’s a brutal effective pay cut. But if you move to low cost city in an expensive state (Yreka, CA), it’s a huge effective pay raise. Despite, theoretically, the employer getting the same value.

I think these will sort themselves out over time, but it’s annoying in the short term.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#299

Post by nikau »

midasuni wrote: post #22
zpeti wrote: post #15

It’s a gift if you don’t have small children. It’s ridiculously harder if you do. It’s like trying to work in an emergency room, where every minute there’s some emergency, and you’re trying to do something different. Of course most people working in tech aren’t facing this issue and so think working from home is great for everyone.

I have worked from home from before my kids were born. They’re now 8 and 10. I don’t recognise what you are saying, probably because when I’m at work I’m uncontactable. More recently it seems people think working at home means you get to do things like washing, cleaning, babysitting etc as well. That’s not a work from home issue, it’s an attitude problem.

Interesting comparison - I can put a load of washing on faster at home than what it takes for me to walk to the toilet and back in the office.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#300

Post by sokoloff »

scotty79 wrote: post #283
sokoloff wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So long as there are governments involved in the employee-employer relationship, this can’t happen. I don’t actually care where you live, but I do care that I can legally employ you, pay you, pay taxes/social charges, and that I understand the obligations of the arrangement we’re contemplating entering.

It could be set up completely differently. Employer could pay 100% to the government and government could pay employee after properly taxing the income. But that would require work from the government that it doesn't want to do.

Which government(s)? Taxes and social charges can vary by city, county, state, and country. If I'm going to hire scotty79 with no knowledge of where in the world they live, which governments would I coordinate with and how would I know that?

Employment rules, customs, and laws vary by at least state and country (and minimum wages vary by city). How would I know what laws applied to the employment relationship?

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