Why is remote work seen as a gift? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#251

Post by pmoriarty » Thu, Feb 09, 2023, 1:15 PM UTC

andai wrote: post #93

silveraxe93 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. Having a job is comparable to being in prison. By those standards every single human to ever live has been in prison. Humanity will only be free once we're in a post-scarcity society.

While "freedom from labor" might be just around the corner (AGI, basic income etc.), there's still a lot of wiggle room between "confined to a specific chair for 8 hours" and "can spend all day snoozing on the beach" ! To put it another way, there are ways to make money that spark more or less joy, and much of this variation is possible even for "regular folks" working "regular jobs". But most of that possibility spa…

> "freedom from labor" might be just around the corner (AGI, basic income etc.)

What use will the wealthy and powerful have for the unproductive masses after robots can do all their work for them?

Is more likely that strong AI and robots will be used to ever more effectively control and oppress most of humanity than help or free them.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#252

Post by pmoriarty » Thu, Feb 09, 2023, 1:20 PM UTC

newaccount74 wrote: post #148

When you are in the office, the company has almost all your attention. There is almost nothing to distract you from work. When you are at home, there are a million things to distract you. There's laundry that needs to be done, the kitchen cleaned, kids that want to play, there's a full fridge with stuff to make a sandwich, a TV that you can turn on, etc. When you are forced to go to the office, you are forced to take…

"When you are at home, there are a million things to distract you."

Nothing distracts me when I work from home. I was far less productive in the office with ping-pong games, chattering coworkers, long commutes, etc. When at home I just focus on the work and the day flies by. It's a hell of a lot less stressful too.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#253

Post by JonChesterfield » Thu, Feb 09, 2023, 1:21 PM UTC

burmanm wrote: post #238

hzay wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I meant what setup keeps the kids away from your productive time.

Mostly teaching them. "When dad works, don't bother him". And since I do come out of the room in any case often enough (coffee/toilet/eat/etc), they saw me enough often. But it's not like single productive period is a long time, rather it's a patches of smaller events during the day. Of course now that they're bigger, everything is a bit different.

This strongly implies you had a partner watching the kids while you work, which has scaling problems if you both want to work at the same time.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#254

Post by ejb999 » Thu, Feb 09, 2023, 1:21 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #229

Avicebron wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer, but this seems illegal on its face. Just from a tax perspective for the government, I feel like people would immediately start trying to game it for taxes.

I don't know if it matters but I have a limited company and am an employee of said company, which means I deal with taxes on my own and can perform work for (almost) any company in the world - I just invoice them like any supplier. Maybe this is the future? Though some companies would rather you were their employee I suppose.

I think an awful lot of employers would prefer you were a contractor; in the USA at least, it is the IRS/government that prevents this from happening more by putting the fear into said employers that they will be fined and forced to pay back taxes for anyone improperly classifying people as contractors when they are in fact employees.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#255

Post by bluedino » Thu, Feb 09, 2023, 1:21 PM UTC

zpeti wrote: post #15

It’s a gift if you don’t have small children. It’s ridiculously harder if you do. It’s like trying to work in an emergency room, where every minute there’s some emergency, and you’re trying to do something different. Of course most people working in tech aren’t facing this issue and so think working from home is great for everyone.

You obviously need to have a sitter come over or take your kids to daycare/school.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#256

Post by pmoriarty » Thu, Feb 09, 2023, 1:22 PM UTC

gorgoiler wrote: post #87

It doesn’t matter where you work, as long as you get the work done Good tech orgs list expectations for each role, and every senior role requires you to be improving the impact of others’ work as well as your own. Clearly that applies to managers — it’s literally their job — but many top IC roles pay the big bucks because you come up with projects and promote them under your own steam. If you can do that all remotely…

What exactly can you do in an office to meet those expectations that you can't do remote?

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#257

Post by phoronixrly » Thu, Feb 09, 2023, 1:23 PM UTC

andsoitis wrote: post #122

phoronixrly wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. We've grown accustomed to the insane idea that someone else should provide childcare for our children while we are away for 8-10 hours a day.

if childcare requires constant attention and presence, how can you do that while also working?

For the period of time when constant attention is required, there's paid parental leave.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#258

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 09, 2023, 1:23 PM UTC

knorker wrote: post #118

MrGilbert wrote: post #25

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

Do you want to play that game? Because if location doesn't matter then there are a billion people in India who are willing to do your job for much much less. In salary per value to the company you are extremely overpaid, assuming you live in the west. I don't think you want to open that can of worms. Edit to add: All those people moving from India to the US for the money could then stay in India. You're not competing…

[deleted]

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#259

Post by Agentlien » Thu, Feb 09, 2023, 1:23 PM UTC

senttoschool wrote: post #150

tluyben2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many managers are not very good and mostly believe managing means flogging the herd to work harder; that’s not really possible remotely.

Many individual contributors are not very good and mostly overrate their own ability to be productive while working from home.

I'm sceptical towards this. I know my own productivity has measurably improved since I started working from home - mainly from the calmer work environment and lack of distractions.

When performing recent post-mortems it also became clear that when the whole studio was unexpectedly forced to work remotely, productivity overall slightly increased despite some initial concerns about adapting our workflows and communication channels.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#260

Post by pmoriarty » Thu, Feb 09, 2023, 1:23 PM UTC

baxtr wrote: post #160

I really hate working fully remote so much. I love going to the office and meeting people. It gives me energy and a sense of belonging. I would never want to work for a fully remote company.

I get my sense of belonging with my friends and family. I don't feel a need to bond with the other office drones.