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Why is remote work seen as a gift?

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Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#121

Post by schnitzelstoat »

rizach8 wrote: post #60
MrGilbert wrote: post #25

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

This is so foreign to me, living in Europe. The salary here is in my experience based on where the company is located. Big city, big salary.

Yeah, but our "big salary" is still like half of what they'd pay in the USA.

Perhaps the company doesn't see it worthwhile to argue over peanuts.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#122

Post by andsoitis »

phoronixrly wrote: post #28
zpeti wrote: post #15

It’s a gift if you don’t have small children. It’s ridiculously harder if you do. It’s like trying to work in an emergency room, where every minute there’s some emergency, and you’re trying to do something different. Of course most people working in tech aren’t facing this issue and so think working from home is great for everyone.

I beg to differ. We've grown accustomed to the insane idea that someone else should provide childcare for our children while we are away for 8-10 hours a day.

if childcare requires constant attention and presence, how can you do that while also working?

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#123

Post by zahrc »

nlnn wrote: post #109

I've worked either both fully remote and fully in the office over the past decade depending on job at the time, and noticed little difference in work productivity at home vs. the office. The major difference has been in the dead time around work. Time spent commuting, lunch breaks, coffee breaks, etc. When working in an office, nothing much is achieved during those (maybe some socialising or reading), and work takes…

Productivity is purely dependent on the individual or even teams. But I definitely agree with the “dead time”.

It would be a utopian world where employees respect and consider living conditions (eg single vs married; cost of living in specific area) and commutes. Make yourself valuable to negotiate better terms, or look for something better.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#124

Post by mcv »

midasuni wrote: post #22
zpeti wrote: post #15

It’s a gift if you don’t have small children. It’s ridiculously harder if you do. It’s like trying to work in an emergency room, where every minute there’s some emergency, and you’re trying to do something different. Of course most people working in tech aren’t facing this issue and so think working from home is great for everyone.

I have worked from home from before my kids were born. They’re now 8 and 10. I don’t recognise what you are saying, probably because when I’m at work I’m uncontactable. More recently it seems people think working at home means you get to do things like washing, cleaning, babysitting etc as well. That’s not a work from home issue, it’s an attitude problem.

But when I work from home, I do am able to do things like washing and cleaning. (I'm not going to babysit of course; that implies other people's children.)

When I'm stuck on a problem or frustrated by some issue, doing the laundry is a great way to clear the mind and approach the problem in a new way. Similar to how you often get the solution to a problem in the shower or on the drive home. It's pretty awesome to be able to do that during my work day, and office doesn't really give good opportunities for this.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#125

Post by zahrc »

rizach8 wrote: post #60
MrGilbert wrote: post #25

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

This is so foreign to me, living in Europe. The salary here is in my experience based on where the company is located. Big city, big salary.

Of course there might be exceptions, but isn’t it reasonable to expect that companies in bigger cities have more business and can therefore pay more?

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#126

Post by anon20230209 »

mcv wrote: post #100
anon20230209 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should be about the value I bring to the company, not where I live. But they are not hiring you for "value", you are just a body in a seat filling a "role". Real game to play is: you ask for X money, they propose Y money, agree and do Y amount of work and not the X amount of work. It's entirely reasonable to "quite-quit" even at non-minimum-salary compensation levels.

Then they should hire someone else. There are cheaper bodies for filling seats than mine.

And they do. Have you not seen all the whining of Google veterans cut after their recent lay-offs?

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#127

Post by quickthrower2 »

mcv wrote: post #110
quickthrower2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this! Under say school age there is no hope. Daycare can help but is another cost.

Do you leave young kids at home unsupervised? I really don't understand this argument.

The comment I replied to:

> It’s like trying to work in an emergency room

So… nothing about unsupervised. Either the working parent is doing that as per their comment, or a daycare as per mine.

In reality if the kid is home the parent is not getting much work done.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#128

Post by mcv »

anon20230209 wrote: post #126
mcv wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they should hire someone else. There are cheaper bodies for filling seats than mine.

And they do. Have you not seen all the whining of Google veterans cut after their recent lay-offs?

It's sad that companies like Google these days are more concerned with filling seats than with writing good software.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#129

Post by mcv »

sokoloff wrote: post #106
mcv wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers are the buyers of labour. If food prices depend on what the consumer can bear, then labour prices should depend on what the employer can bear. And most of them can bear a lot more than they're currently paying.

It is a market. Employers and consumers will pay what they have to be satiated. If they can’t afford that, they’ll have to make do with less. If something is priced too high and there are viable alternatives, they’ll consider those alternatives.

And so should employees, of course. We have options too.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#130

Post by Tade0 »

papito wrote: post #39
epgui wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite position could just as well be said to rest on the opposite assumption.

From personal experience, I am MUCH happier getting out of the house a couple of times a week. Lockdowns felt like house arrest, and commuting 5 days a week felt completely unnecessary and exhausting. For many people I know this is the case, so I don't think pure remote or location work are "it".

> From personal experience, I am MUCH happier getting out of the house a couple of times a week.

You can still do that. My friend rented an office a five minute walk from his home - it costs him 3% of his salary.

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