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Why is remote work seen as a gift?

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Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#101

Post by mcv »

vmlinuz wrote: post #73
qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me sitting in the office, because ordered to be there, while all my managers are remote, wondering slightly what is going on..

That's exactly what happened to me during lockdown - hired at a bank on a fixed-term contract, purely by phone interview. When I started, they required me to work on-site because I wasn't permanent staff and therefore had to be supervised, except my manager wasn't on-site and I was there for over 2 months before meeting him in person - they were actually quite strict about separation because they were worried about t…

This is completely the opposite of my experience. Most developers work from home, but managers are more likely to be in the office because their job is meeting lots of people.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#102

Post by kagaw »

In our case, our government forces our BPO(Business Process Outsourcing) companies to return the employees to the office because of the economy. There are small businesses and infrastructure that are invested near office hubs. So, if people stops going to the office those small businesses will shut down. If the company won't comply, the tax perks will be remove.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#103

Post by fwlr »

skrebbel wrote: post #7
fwlr wrote: post #2

The cynical answer to that question is ”you don’t need to be in the office to do your work, but your manager does need you in the office to do his work”.

Unless you believe managers don’t do useful work, that doesn’t even strike me as a very cynical take. I disagree with it though, I manage a distributed team and I can do my work fine without the team being in the office. I think the serendipity arguments for on-site are much stronger than “manager doesn't trust team member to be productive on their own” which the entire world discovered was bullshit during the corona…

No, I believe managers do useful work. What I mean is that knowledge workers have discovered they have the capability to do their job just as effectively when remote, while managers have simultaneously discovered they don’t have the capability to do their job nearly as effectively when remote; i.e. a lot of managers are realizing they relied on face-to-face interpersonal skills to motivate, track, and manage their employees. Some managers (like yourself) have clearly adapted, while others have realized how much they relied on (benign!) shouldersurfing to figure out if work was being done.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#104

Post by alpaca128 »

squokko wrote: post #32
epgui wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite position could just as well be said to rest on the opposite assumption.

The burden of proof is much higher on remote work. The entire history of civilization from hunter-gatherers to 2019 was built largely with in-person work. If companies are going to make a permanent change to the way work is done, they will need affirmative proof that the new way works better than the old way, otherwise the much more tried-and-true old way is a much safer bet.

> The entire history of civilization from hunter-gatherers to 2019 was built largely with in-person work

Not surprising, given remote work didn't exist for 99% of that time period.

> they will need affirmative proof that the new way works better than the old way

If they couldn't find enough evidence during the last few years they have bigger problems than the choice between remote and office work.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#105

Post by hzay »

burmanm wrote: post #35
zpeti wrote: post #15

It’s a gift if you don’t have small children. It’s ridiculously harder if you do. It’s like trying to work in an emergency room, where every minute there’s some emergency, and you’re trying to do something different. Of course most people working in tech aren’t facing this issue and so think working from home is great for everyone.

In which world? I started working remotely in 2014, when my youngest one hadn't even born yet (I only had 2 back then, and they were small). Yet, there was more peace and ability to concentrate at home than there was at my previous office. Less interrupts, no time wasted to driving. And my kids weren't at the kindergarten. The remote possibility even gave me enough energy to finalize my MSc finally (at evenings), som…

What setup enabled all this productivity?

I hope I'm wrong but this comment reads like it came straight out of this piece of satire - http://www.columbia.edu/~sss31/rainbow/wife.html

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#106

Post by sokoloff »

mcv wrote: post #90
toyg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should be about the value I bring to the company, not where I live. That's like saying the price of goods and services should be about the cost of producing them. No no no: the price is about what buyers will bear. In the same way, salaries are about what the worker will bear. If there is an arbitrage lever to maximize profit, any business will use it.

Employers are the buyers of labour. If food prices depend on what the consumer can bear, then labour prices should depend on what the employer can bear. And most of them can bear a lot more than they're currently paying.

It is a market. Employers and consumers will pay what they have to be satiated. If they can’t afford that, they’ll have to make do with less. If something is priced too high and there are viable alternatives, they’ll consider those alternatives.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#107

Post by givemeethekeys »

MrGilbert wrote: post #25

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

> companies out there stating that remote is "complicated"

It's complicated because a large number of managers haven't figured out how to manage a remote team.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#108

Post by andsoitis »

re-thc wrote: post #37
chii wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where they can not leave. unlike a prison, you're free to leave the job.

To be in another job? Still cannot leave. It's the equivalent of changing prison cells.

this line of argument doesn’t make sense. you’re complaining that having a job is like being imprisoned. if you feel so strongly about it, you should be an entrepreneur. know that it comes with other tradeoffs you may not prefer.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#109

Post by nlnn »

I've worked either both fully remote and fully in the office over the past decade depending on job at the time, and noticed little difference in work productivity at home vs. the office.

The major difference has been in the dead time around work. Time spent commuting, lunch breaks, coffee breaks, etc. When working in an office, nothing much is achieved during those (maybe some socialising or reading), and work takes them out of my time rather than their time.

Working remotely gives that dead time back to me, allowing me to spend it on things I consider more valuable (e.g. playing a musical instrument, doing some DIY around the house, gardening, putting on washing, etc.).

It's that which I feel has given me a better quality of life than the act of not working in an office. If an employer is paying me, I don't object to doing that work where they request. What I do object to is the extra hours that takes out of my life that they aren't paying me for (typically commuting).

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#110

Post by mcv »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #23
zpeti wrote: post #15

It’s a gift if you don’t have small children. It’s ridiculously harder if you do. It’s like trying to work in an emergency room, where every minute there’s some emergency, and you’re trying to do something different. Of course most people working in tech aren’t facing this issue and so think working from home is great for everyone.

Yes this! Under say school age there is no hope. Daycare can help but is another cost.

Do you leave young kids at home unsupervised? I really don't understand this argument.
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