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Why is remote work seen as a gift?

cdoyle.me

71–80 of 564 posts

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#71

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

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Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#72

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

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Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#73
post #2

The cynical answer to that question is ”you don’t need to be in the office to do your work, but your manager does need you in the office to do his work”.

Me sitting in the office, because ordered to be there, while all my managers are remote, wondering slightly what is going on..

That's exactly what happened to me during lockdown - hired at a bank on a fixed-term contract, purely by phone interview. When I started, they required me to work on-site because I wasn't permanent staff and therefore had to be supervised, except my manager wasn't on-site and I was there for over 2 months before meeting him in person - they were actually quite strict about separation because they were worried about the operational risk of an office outbreak.

It wasn't until I broke my toe and was told by the doctor to minimise my walking they they allowed me to (technically temporarily) work from home...

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#74

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

> It should be about the value I bring to the company, not where I live.

But they are not hiring you for "value", you are just a body in a seat filling a "role".

Real game to play is: you ask for X money, they propose Y money, agree and do Y amount of work and not the X amount of work. It's entirely reasonable to "quite-quit" even at non-minimum-salary compensation levels.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#75
post #13

Before Corona I travelled a lot and now I live so remotely that a office job is out of the question without moving. The actual remote jobs I've seen in that time all had weird issues like fixed (early) meeting times, more often than not even daily. Or performance tracking that went as far as installing third party monitoring Software while not even getting a dedicated work computer. Or being available at slack the wh…

Pretty much all of that goes away once you switch from salary to freelance. I think it's mostly a framing-thing where people figure "I pay this person to work for me 40 hours a week" and then they want to get the most out of those 40 hours and feel like they need to make sure that you're actually working and not doing chores around the house. When you freelance on a project-basis, it's "I pay this person to create th…

I am not going to go back to project based salaries. I am to lazy to negotiate all the things that come after I think I am done :) Maybe I was just to cheap, dunno.

When I still did freelancing I just asked for a rather high hourly rate and was super efficient in that time. At some point it got hard to find customers tho when other people claim the same for a 4th of the rate or less.

The ultimate solution for a lazy coder like me is just maintaining some websites that make money. My time, my decisions, my money.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#76
post #15

It’s a gift if you don’t have small children. It’s ridiculously harder if you do. It’s like trying to work in an emergency room, where every minute there’s some emergency, and you’re trying to do something different. Of course most people working in tech aren’t facing this issue and so think working from home is great for everyone.

Wait what, most people in tech don’t have small children? I don’t think those in tech have kids any less than other industries

Plus if you worked an office job instead you would need day care, which is still an option for you when working remotely (unless you prefer nannies?)

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#77
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The burden of proof is much higher on remote work. The entire history of civilization from hunter-gatherers to 2019 was built largely with in-person work. If companies are going to make a permanent change to the way work is done, they will need affirmative proof that the new way works better than the old way, otherwise the much more tried-and-true old way is a much safer bet.

Well, in the entire history of civilization most people used to work at home, and not at some other place. Offices aren't part of human nature.

For most of human history people worked together in person, as tribes! (I think this is at least part of the reason companies so heavily push the "we are your family" meme, trying to artificially create that original level of collectivism and aligned incentives.)

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#78
post #49

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

> It should be about the value I bring to the company, not where I live. That's like saying the price of goods and services should be about the cost of producing them. No no no: the price is about what buyers will bear. In the same way, salaries are about what the worker will bear. If there is an arbitrage lever to maximize profit, any business will use it.

Very much this. It makes the process of salary negotiation completely tied to perception rather than reality, which isn't necessarily bad for the employee. It just means that the justifications for a higher salary need to change from "your salary offer is too low because it shouldn't depend on where I live" to "your salary offer should be higher because I can improve your business in x, y and z"

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#80

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

> I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs.

Play the game as fits your needs. For example, adjust your work output and use the freed time to look for a better employer.

Also, if anybody asks, I live in Bermuda.

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