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Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

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Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would you get all the water for that? The defining characteristic of a desert is little precipitation.

I'd have to find somewhere with water near a desert, that's why I specified the edge. My understanding of how some deserts form is that farming techniques or other forces can cause a region to stop retaining water as well, and if this happens in a large enough area, it can lead to less rainfall etc. I remember reading about how herd animals trampling prairie grass and shitting all over it causes it to retain signific…

Most deserts are actually formed primarily due to abiotic features like geography. Usually if you see a desert, there's a nearby mountain range that that desert is in the shadow of, preventing it from getting much precipitation

You're not wrong about the diminished abilities of a desert to hold water. More people drown in deserts every year than die of thirst. When it does rain it pools up and can easily create flash floods. The major problem is if you do try to start building any topsoil, these types of floods can wash away your years of work. It's a hard problem because you're both in desperate need of precipitation and desperate fear of it

Techniques that could be used to combat this are things like the waffle gardens[0] that Zuni people have used for a long time, olla pot irrigation that have been in use in China and Northern Africa for over 4,000 years, and complex swale systems, or terracing systems like the Incans used to basically turn deserts into fertile ground[2] and might be the reason we today have potatoes, tomatoes, corn, beans, peanuts, sweet potatoes and a large number of other crops domesticated in the Andes

I really think the biggest challenge is just shade though. The worst thing you could possibly do for soil is expose it to direct sunlight. One "geoengineer-y" idea I toy with that keeps coming up for me is what if we just built a bunch of large boxes made of wood or bamboo some other biodegradable material and just left them in the desert. All that you really need is something like the structures that shade covered parking lots. If you just make some large, flat, cheap structures like these you'd be able to provide what's possibly one of the most valuable resources in the desert: shade. Ultimately if you manage to start a soil ecology up, the whole issue solves itself. Soils inoculated with mycorrhizal fungi hold 50x as much water as those that don't; the soil activity of bacteria, fungi, protozoa, nematodes, etc also turn the large grained sandy soils into more loam-y soils that can support many more life forms and plants; the fine roots of plants that tend to grow in soils like these hold together soil better so less topsoil gets lost; plants that grow with mycorrhizal fungi are less susceptible to drought (as well as frost and basically every other stressors you can think of) and have much more access to nutrients.

Basically all our problems go away if we can just get soil going. And plenty of desert plants already know this. Creosote bushes, nara melons, and the nitre bush are 3 examples that immediately come to mind. All of these slow growing plants have the strategy of simply providing shade and holding as much soil together as they can. And over time an incredible diversity of soil microbiomes form around the roots of these plants. The nitre bush also forms nabkhas[3] that capture other debris flying around and over time lessons the harshness of the desert winds, thereby lessening the rate of topsoil loss.

Nature already has solutions. If we could just kickstart the process by providing the right microclimates we might be able to help these organisms stand a chance against the forces of desertification

[0] https://www.notechmagazine.com/2021/11/waffle-gardens.html

[1] https://www.nativeseeds.org/blogs/blog-news/how-to-use-olla-...

[2] https://www.mayaincaaztec.com/inca/incaagriculture

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabkha

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#42
post #14

Isn't "slash and burn" also a common agricultural practice for millenia?

Depends who/where/when you're talking about. For example, I'd really hesitate to lump the carefully planned controlled "slow burns" that Native Californians and Aboriginal Australians have practiced into the same category as "slash and burn". The former is done in a very planned way in very restricted areas and ends up having the net effect of reducing the number of wildfires while also increasing the productivity of certain species like acorns. There's a large number of other benefits to these techniques like the charcoal produced ending up cleaning the streams and making them more safe to enjoy and drink from for humans

"Slash and burn" as I've heard it is mostly applied to colonial techniques where the goal is actual destruction of forests to turn the land into (temporarily) very productive agricultural plots. This is in contrast to the cultural burns that were usually done in the name of preservation and to the benefit of many native wild plants

But we could just be going by different dictionaries

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the "rare mushrooms" should be left alone. Perhaps they would become less rare. Edit: that's right folks, keep those downvotes coming for suggesting actually conserving something instead of exploiting it.

They aren't really 'rare' they just can't be cultivated in captivity at a commercial scale well due to their need for a symbiotic relationship with trees as well as Morels being very picky about their fruiting triggers. I have seen people successfully 'seed' an area by making a slurry by blending molasses, water, and wild foraged morels that were subpar and letting the spores germinate with a water aerator running in…

>wild foraged morels that were subpar

That sounds kind of like the opposite of how you'd want to slowly end up domesticating a lifeform, doesn't it?

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#44
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact to add about carbon sinks, peat bogs can sink 4-17 times as much CO2 per acre as a forest and acts as an incredible moisture regulator. One of my more out there dreams is to start a big man made peat bog at the edge of a desert.

Where would you get all the water for that? The defining characteristic of a desert is little precipitation.

Defining characteristic of arid is little precipitation. Desert is more about sandy soil that supports sparse vegetation.

If wasteland can accumulate organic material, and start rebuilding the soil, it starts retaining more water, which brings in more vegetation. This reverses desertification. There are some good examples of this in India. There are parts of the Arizona central canal which accidentally created bearms that also started this effect.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would you get all the water for that? The defining characteristic of a desert is little precipitation.

I'd have to find somewhere with water near a desert, that's why I specified the edge. My understanding of how some deserts form is that farming techniques or other forces can cause a region to stop retaining water as well, and if this happens in a large enough area, it can lead to less rainfall etc. I remember reading about how herd animals trampling prairie grass and shitting all over it causes it to retain signific…

Check these out:

https://youtu.be/jf8usAesJvo

https://youtu.be/KhoV-vBAyFI

There are ways to do this without creating bogs, and work off of the monsoon rains that come through these regions.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the "rare mushrooms" should be left alone. Perhaps they would become less rare. Edit: that's right folks, keep those downvotes coming for suggesting actually conserving something instead of exploiting it.

Mature mushrooms drop a billion spores a day and picking them doesn't harm the mycelium. They will be ok.

Picking them right, doesn't harm mycelium.

Digging them out and leaving the mycel exposed for examole, is bad. Cover them up again please.

And mushrooms need a lot of spores, because for a new mushroom, 2 spores have to come together by chance.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#47
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have to find somewhere with water near a desert, that's why I specified the edge. My understanding of how some deserts form is that farming techniques or other forces can cause a region to stop retaining water as well, and if this happens in a large enough area, it can lead to less rainfall etc. I remember reading about how herd animals trampling prairie grass and shitting all over it causes it to retain signific…

Most deserts are actually formed primarily due to abiotic features like geography. Usually if you see a desert, there's a nearby mountain range that that desert is in the shadow of, preventing it from getting much precipitation You're not wrong about the diminished abilities of a desert to hold water. More people drown in deserts every year than die of thirst. When it does rain it pools up and can easily create flash…

How about solar panels for providing shade?

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#48
post #4

It is well-known that morel mushrooms do very well in a freshly-burned forest. "...black morels (Morchella elata and related species) are mostly found in coniferous forests, disturbed ground and recently burned areas." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella#Association_with_wil...

I visited a burned forest last spring, hoping to catch this phenomenon. I had been scouring the newspapers for news about small forest fires; since I live in one of the soggiest places on earth outside the tropics it doesn't happen a lot.

Didn't find any, but maybe it was too fresh (fire was in January I think, I visited late in spring). Did take some pictures. It will be interesting to compare them to what it looks like today, I plan to go there again when morel season starts. Fire ecology is fascinating in its own right... but morels, man.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#49
post #4

It is well-known that morel mushrooms do very well in a freshly-burned forest. "...black morels (Morchella elata and related species) are mostly found in coniferous forests, disturbed ground and recently burned areas." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella#Association_with_wil...

"Do very well" may not be quite correct. When mycorrhizal hosts die, the organism puts all its energy into escaping the dead end - fruiting and dispersing spores. If there are periodic fires that kill trees, that's a great time to spread to a neighboring area. If giant fire that takes out vast areas, that may be less good.

I don't think morels are entirely reliant on myccorrhizal relationships. There have apparently been successful small scale farming attempts without trees, check out the Danish Morel Project.

Either way, if hosts dying was all there was to it, you'd expect all sorts of myccorrhizal mushrooms to grow after a fire, and most don't.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't really 'rare' they just can't be cultivated in captivity at a commercial scale well due to their need for a symbiotic relationship with trees as well as Morels being very picky about their fruiting triggers. I have seen people successfully 'seed' an area by making a slurry by blending molasses, water, and wild foraged morels that were subpar and letting the spores germinate with a water aerator running in…

> wild foraged morels that were subpar That sounds kind of like the opposite of how you'd want to slowly end up domesticating a lifeform, doesn't it?

subpar here can mean harvested too late to be palatable, not that the mushroom itself had anything wrong
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