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Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

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Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#371

Post by doomleika »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #243

You know, whatever the merits (and it sounds as if there were very few) of Google's presentation (or Pinchai's recent non-statement) might be, I would have expected the commentariat here at HN to display way more skepticism about language models as a replacement for search. If there's a crowd anywhere in the world large enough to leave 200+ comments on a post like this, you'd think thatg the one at HN would understan…

I would argue the state of search engine(i.e. google) is worse than ChatGPT. Half of the time top of the search gives me non-answers like "it depends". I have to use `stackoverflow` `reddit` or incognito mode to force google at least give me something tangible, and I don't see google going to change in short term considering for them, me going through all 3 pages of search is engagement and ad revenue.

ChatGPT might not be ideal, but they are way better than current offering.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#372

Post by hn_go_brrrrr »

WorldPeas wrote: post #354
uoaei wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thoughts are allowed to be both funny and sad at the same time.

whatever happened to "comedy is tragedy plus time"?

We're missing the time component right now. It's still recent tragedy.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#373

Post by mlboss »

schleck8 wrote: post #360
mlboss wrote: post #359

ChatGPT will kill Google in 2 main ways * Creating a better search experience without wading through the plethora of BS articles. * By enabling marketers to write BS articles faster which will further ruin Google results.

No it won't. Google's Bard (aka Lambda with search results input) performs almost identically to it from what I've heard and it's already being tested internally.

They have the technology but do they have business model.

I am not able to see a way Google can maintain their dominance in search. They have to eat up their current revenue if they want to play this new game.

ChatGPT like interface means that they cannot show banner ads for their advertisers. I don't think Google can move fast and realign their whole business overnight.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#375

Post by gmokki »

treeman79 wrote: post #134
guardiangod wrote: post #9

I hope Google is not pulling a Blackberry moment. I remember when the iPhone was first announced, BB scrambled to put out press releases saying they have competing products in development. 2 years later the Bold(EDIT: Storm) was released and everyone realized it's just a hastily designed iPhone clone. That marks the end of BB's dominance. >Used to work for BB/RIM

Decades ago intel put out a press about the amazing new tech their CPUs would have. 3 of 5 CPU manufactures gave up. By the time the tech actually arrived, AMD had it as well. The others would have been fine. Sometimes a press release can make all the difference. (Sorry can’t find story that old)

It was announcement Intels first 64 bit processor Itanium. It was going to destroy all the existing 64 bit processors: alpha, sparc etc that had the market cornered (and even MS Windows was ported to most them).

In the end Itanium was late and bad project but competition had already folded. Except for amd that had no existing 64 bit cpu and created AMD64 extension to x86. Intel grudlingly got on board but called their clone of AMD64 "IA-32e" architecure in thei marketikg material. The name was later changed to x86-64, only after what I assume when Itanium was internally acknowledged as failure.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#376

Post by hahahawhat »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #243

You know, whatever the merits (and it sounds as if there were very few) of Google's presentation (or Pinchai's recent non-statement) might be, I would have expected the commentariat here at HN to display way more skepticism about language models as a replacement for search. If there's a crowd anywhere in the world large enough to leave 200+ comments on a post like this, you'd think thatg the one at HN would understan…

"And yet when I read the comments, I see this sort of calm acceptance that of course this technology is going to take over search. Why is everyone so confident? The performance of these models is simultaneously jaw-dropping and absurd. With no proposed solutions to the problems that they fundamentally face, why this level of belief that their ascendance is inevitable?"

Because you forgot the nr 1 rule of fight club. It doesn't matter if it has unsolvable problems. The only thing that matters is if it has the momentum and the support to create a bubble and drive economic growth.

You're welcome.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#377

Post by freediver »

ajross wrote: post #96
jpalomaki wrote: post #65

I think the bigger problem is how does something like ChatGPT fit into Google's business model for search. Conversational interface and/or giving immediate answers may not be the best option in terms of ad revenue. Users re-iterating their search queries gives more opportunities to show ads. When users are scanning the page for best results, they might be more likely to click on the ads with clever wording.

> I think the bigger problem is how does something like ChatGPT fit into Google's business model for search. Alternatively, how does ChatGPT fit into the usage model for search? I know it's taken on faith in this forum that somehow Google[1] search is bad or failing or about to be killed or whatever. But... it's actually just fine? It does what the market wants, more or less perfectly. Everyone uses it to find the 99…

> Everyone uses it to find the 99% of stuff that everyone searches for

You are probably right. What you are missing is that searches currently being made are a small subset of total searches that can actually be made (my guess is For example, Google is 25 years old, has the smartest people, best search technology and yet can not give an answer to a simple question my kid would ask like: "Do more people live in Madrid or Tel Aviv?"

What it can is give you ten links, then you open link #1, find out how many live in Madrid, then go back, open link #2, find out same for Tel Aviv, and then figure this out on your own. This is clearnly not the best way to do this, agreed? AI will do all of this automatically and unlock a whole new category of "searches" that did not exist before.

Another example is "Give me the names of all Texas-based CEOs that run companies with more than 200 employees.".

The only reseaon this search is not a thing today is because Google is not capable of satisfying it - at least not directly (20 searches and numerous ads later you might eventually find an answer, but that is not the point). Queries like this are a real need and belong in the vast pool of searches that will be (eventually) unlocked by AI.

Final example: "Summarize the latest research on quantum gravity for me". Does the user want to do 20 searches and read hundreds of pages of documents or they really want an AI to produce a summary with citiations, 5 seconds later?

Think of Google today as a best Nokia before iPhone showed up.

> if alternative business models haven't disrupted search in the last 20 years, why are they going to start now?

Because now is a good time, disruptive technology is here, and 10 links supported by ads and tracking had a good run, but the civilization is moving beyond.

The age of PageRank is over. [1]

[1] https://blog.kagi.com/age-pagerank-over

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#378

Post by aix1 »

cuttysnark wrote: post #347
reaperducer wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

with revisions ("please include Guam and Puetro Rico") Your wrote "please" to ChatGPT? FWIW, Miss Manners had a column a couple of weeks ago where she stated that we should not say please or thank you to machines, including Siri and Alexa. I was surprised.

I did. I even asked ChatGPT if having "please" and "thank you" included in my prompts affects it in any way shape or form—it told me "No". I still do it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What we don't know is whether that "No" is actually a "No".

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#379

Post by gorbypark »

mlboss wrote: post #373
schleck8 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it won't. Google's Bard (aka Lambda with search results input) performs almost identically to it from what I've heard and it's already being tested internally.

They have the technology but do they have business model. I am not able to see a way Google can maintain their dominance in search. They have to eat up their current revenue if they want to play this new game. ChatGPT like interface means that they cannot show banner ads for their advertisers. I don't think Google can move fast and realign their whole business overnight.

I don’t see why ads can’t be displayed on the side, like they are now in a regular search, and updated as the conversation happens. AFAIK, the cost of an AI conversation far outweighs the cost of a search, so Microsoft/ChatGPT will have to figure out monetization at some point, too.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#380

Post by steakscience »

I think there's too much doom and gloom about Google not being fast enough to respond to Bing + ChatGPT

We know from history that being first means nothing in the long run. If anything, being first often means losing to something more polished and more considered.

Don't worry, most people will still use Google, and Google will eventually release their own version.

This doom and gloom reminds me of all the "Apple is over" because Samsung came out with a tablet and smartwatch before Apple did.

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