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Is Google’s 20-year search dominance about to end?

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Re: Is Google’s 20-year search dominance about to end?

#351
post #199

Sorry to break it to you folks but if you hated your data being with Google, you are in for a surprise on how atrociously bad Microsoft is at privacy and security. Multiple close friends who have worked at Microsoft tell me that search history data - who is searching what, is basically sitting in systems with ACLs so bad that 20-30K employees have access through transitive membership of groups. To access a customer's…

Both are evil but I agree that Google is less evil than Microsoft. Just like the OP I have first hand info on how atrocious Microsoft’s internal privacy controls are. The later versions of Windows are just ad space for Microsoft to advertise. Azure is the worst of the 3 cloud providers. Horrible developer experience and documentation and reliability. That said, I would still take Satya’s Microsoft over Balmers any da…

Both are driven by a profit motive, but Google takes some forms of privacy more seriously.

Lets not use emotionally driven, ambiguous terms like 'evil' to describe these kinds of things. Google is not, for instance, conspiring to commit genocides, nor is Microsoft planning a coup in an Eastern European nation with the goal of colonizing them to use as indentured technical support.

Re: Is Google’s 20-year search dominance about to end?

#352

The article starts, "Nestled in the hills of Mountain View", which is worrisome, because as anyone with even a passing familiarity with Silicon Valley geography knows, Mountain View is mostly flat. And Google's Mountain View offices are located on reclaimed baylands, which are especially flat. I wonder if the article authors were thinking of Xerox PARC's offices in Palo Alto's hills? Or the road named "Sand Hill Road…

ChatGPT had obviously some misunderstanding of the landscape ;-)

Re: Is Google’s 20-year search dominance about to end?

#353
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google stopped being innovative the second their "20% Time" got gutted: > Employees were encouraged to spend up to twenty-percent of their paid work time pursuing personal projects. The objective of the program was to inspire innovation in participating employees and ultimately increase company potential. For Google's part, Gmail and AdSense both arose out of side projects. In 2013, Google discontinued 20 percent tim…

“What has Google released since 2013[0]? Stadia?” - GCP Suite (a full integrated and consistent suit, answering so many things) - Google Workspace (trust me when you get to know everything that is possible you will be amazed) - Tensorflow and other Machine Learning applications

Also: - Kubernetes has been incredibly transformative and adopted by all other cloud providers - Golang - the language of choice for a lot of cloud native tools - Flutter - it may not be the incumbent choice but it makes cross platform development a breeze - Google Photos - no other photo platform comes close to it

Re: Is Google’s 20-year search dominance about to end?

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both are evil but I agree that Google is less evil than Microsoft. Just like the OP I have first hand info on how atrocious Microsoft’s internal privacy controls are. The later versions of Windows are just ad space for Microsoft to advertise. Azure is the worst of the 3 cloud providers. Horrible developer experience and documentation and reliability. That said, I would still take Satya’s Microsoft over Balmers any da…

Both are driven by a profit motive, but Google takes some forms of privacy more seriously. Lets not use emotionally driven, ambiguous terms like 'evil' to describe these kinds of things. Google is not, for instance, conspiring to commit genocides, nor is Microsoft planning a coup in an Eastern European nation with the goal of colonizing them to use as indentured technical support.

One does not simply coup who they wish.

Re: Is Google’s 20-year search dominance about to end?

#355

I don't understand this hype and I feel like I'm looking at different products than everyone else is. There are very few complaints I have about Google that I think this technology helps solve, and for most of my complaints, getting summaries of searches makes the situation worse, not better. To be completely clear: even if the AI was perfect , I don't know that I want even an actual human being to sit down and summa…

There seem to be two different directions for innovation here. The first is a little more mundane: LLM embeddings. OpenAI currently offers an API that turns sentences into coordinates for a point in some 1536-dimensional conceptual space such that two points are close together if they are conceptually close together. This is insanely powerful. For example, you can generate captions for a bunch of images and store the…

> The first is a little more mundane: LLM embeddings.

You know Google has been doing this for years now?

> However, there's an entire collection of things that can be answered directly by ChatGPT. For example "how many mins should I hard boil an egg" or "Can I take NyQuil when I'm stoned" or anything else where you really just want a single sentence answer.

Google has been doing this for years via search cards, which are AI generated summaries of website information.

Re: Is Google’s 20-year search dominance about to end?

#356

It's been a while since they stopped innovating. Although Google, Maps, Youtube are of daily use they are monetized exclusively by advertising which is annoying and hated by many. It has been many years since Google has launched an innovative new product. I don't think ChatGPT will gain daily traction after this hype. Anyway we could say that MSFT and AMZN have demostrated more power to innovate with different busine…

>It has been many years since Google has launched an innovative new product.

I can say the exact same thing about countless other large companies: Facebook, Intel, Microsoft, Boeing, AMD, AT&T, I could go on and on. At some point, launching innovative new products isn't really that important for a company, when many people on the services that company provides.

Re: Is Google’s 20-year search dominance about to end?

#357

I don't understand this hype and I feel like I'm looking at different products than everyone else is. There are very few complaints I have about Google that I think this technology helps solve, and for most of my complaints, getting summaries of searches makes the situation worse, not better. To be completely clear: even if the AI was perfect , I don't know that I want even an actual human being to sit down and summa…

There seem to be two different directions for innovation here. The first is a little more mundane: LLM embeddings. OpenAI currently offers an API that turns sentences into coordinates for a point in some 1536-dimensional conceptual space such that two points are close together if they are conceptually close together. This is insanely powerful. For example, you can generate captions for a bunch of images and store the…

So LLM embedding are an actual useful thing that could actually improve search. Categorization is a real problem that AI could help solve (particularly with search queries). But that's not a new category of search, it's just a question of whether the current LLMs would be better than whatever Google is currently using to make the same inferences. And the direction Bard and Bing seem to be going with these giant models is the conversational direction, and where that's concerned:

> there's an entire collection of things that can be answered directly by ChatGPT. [...] assuming chatGPT is good enough eventually

I am a lot less impressed with this. And I know I'm an outlier and plenty of people are shocked at how good GPT is at this kind of problem, so I am constantly second-guessing myself and thinking to myself, "are we using the same product?" Because I think ChatGPT produces really bad quality information. It's cool, it's wildly impressive, it's a massive achievement and an incredible milestone for AI, but 'cool' is different from 'useful.'

Leaving aside the problem that answering simple questions is a very small subset of what search is used for, and isn't on its own probably a big enough category of questions to make me change search engines, the bigger problem is that the current state of ChatGPT seems to be wildly inconsistent about what it knows and what it doesn't know and I don't have a way to pre-predict what categories of information it's safe to ask about. And the only way for me to verify the answers it gives me are to... double check its work with a real search.

I would not advise anyone to ask ChatGPT for advice about what drugs are safe to take while high, that seems profoundly unwise to me.

So it's a bit like Instant Answers. Google has been trying to auto-answer questions for ages, and in practice the only time it's ever been useful for me is when it's extremely predictable and when I know that a category of question will only ever have its answer pulled from one site and where I know what the format of that answer will be.

Unpredictability is generally a quality that I try to avoid any time that I am using a computer. One of the primary strengths of a computer to me is specificity and predictability. And so the bar here is really high. The question I ask myself is, "would I want to replace a search engine with a human assistant?" And I think the answer is no, I feel like that would be missing the point of what a search engine is. And ChatGPT gives worse answers than a human assistant would, and its sources/knowledge is just as unpredictable as a human's would be if not worse. So, I also don't want to replace my search engine with ChatGPT.

It could get more accurate in the future, and if it does then maybe my opinion will change then, but... it's hard for me to get excited about using a worse product today on the promise that it might get better in the future. And I guess it's accurate enough that a bunch of people keep telling me that they're saving time when they use it, so maybe I don't understand what I'm talking about. But I just don't see how people are reaching that conclusion unless they're either asking questions where they don't actually care about the accuracy or unless they're just rolling the dice and trusting that ChatGPT won't accidentally poison them when they ask what drug combinations they can take.

Re: Is Google’s 20-year search dominance about to end?

#359

It's been a while since they stopped innovating. Although Google, Maps, Youtube are of daily use they are monetized exclusively by advertising which is annoying and hated by many. It has been many years since Google has launched an innovative new product. I don't think ChatGPT will gain daily traction after this hype. Anyway we could say that MSFT and AMZN have demostrated more power to innovate with different busine…

Google stopped being innovative the second their "20% Time" got gutted: > Employees were encouraged to spend up to twenty-percent of their paid work time pursuing personal projects. The objective of the program was to inspire innovation in participating employees and ultimately increase company potential. For Google's part, Gmail and AdSense both arose out of side projects. In 2013, Google discontinued 20 percent tim…

Wait is the uBlock domain list shareable? I would love to add that to my config as well.

Re: Is Google’s 20-year search dominance about to end?

#360
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Workspaces originally released in 2006 (inc. Sheets, Docs, Drive was 2012, Calendar was 2009, etc), it was rebranded "G Suite" in 2016 then rebranded "Google Workspaces" in 2020. Rebranding an existing product isn't innovation. Google Cloud is a worse clone of AWS, is that innovative? Redmond-style photocopying? I'll give you TensorFlow, but we're talking about that being their death knell, so congratulations…

> Google Cloud is a worse clone of AWS This certainly hasn’t been my experience. I’ve found GCP products to be much better/easier to deal with than their AWS counterparts.

Worse in the aspect of market dominance.
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