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Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

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Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#21

Post by empyrrhicist »

chasil wrote: post #20
empyrrhicist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do very well" may not be quite correct. When mycorrhizal hosts die, the organism puts all its energy into escaping the dead end - fruiting and dispersing spores. If there are periodic fires that kill trees, that's a great time to spread to a neighboring area. If giant fire that takes out vast areas, that may be less good.

But controlled burns and fires that otherwise do not cause complete incineration of the symbiotic trees/plants would not result in the death of the fungi. However, with the ground cleared, the spores would travel further. There are also fire-dependent plants that are reproduction-adapted for these conditions. "Some cones, such as those of lodgepole pine and sequoia, are pyriscent, as well as many chaparral shrubs, me…

Yes, it's an adaptation for a particular ecosystem.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#22

Post by wiredfool »

beamgirl wrote: post #8
hinkley wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biochar turns out to be more effective in bacteria dominant soils than in fungal, where the fungi provide some of the same services. Tropical forests are bacterial, temperate fungal. I don’t think it’s an accident that terra preta (a biochar + ? complex of soil) is found in Brazil. It’s also a reason we have to be careful about global warming. Temperate forests make great carbon sinks, tropical do not. If we tip more…

Fun fact to add about carbon sinks, peat bogs can sink 4-17 times as much CO2 per acre as a forest and acts as an incredible moisture regulator. One of my more out there dreams is to start a big man made peat bog at the edge of a desert.

This is why we dig up peat bogs and burn them.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#23

Post by AdmiralAsshat »

sho_hn wrote: post #14

Isn't "slash and burn" also a common agricultural practice for millenia?

That's certainly my understanding. I seem to remember from an Intro to Hinduism class that when the "Aryans" arrived in the Indus Valley, the first thing they did was burn down a bunch of the forests, because the charred mulch made the soil more fertile for growing crops.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#24

Post by MrVandemar »

ycta2023 wrote: post #12
chasil wrote: post #4

It is well-known that morel mushrooms do very well in a freshly-burned forest. "...black morels (Morchella elata and related species) are mostly found in coniferous forests, disturbed ground and recently burned areas." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella#Association_with_wil...

I live on the west coast of north america - the last few years following wildfires my mum heads up to the scorched mountaintops to pick morels and sells them. Big hauls, hundreds of dollars' worth of rare mushrooms growing in ruined forests.

Perhaps the "rare mushrooms" should be left alone. Perhaps they would become less rare.

Edit: that's right folks, keep those downvotes coming for suggesting actually conserving something instead of exploiting it.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#25

Post by dopidopHN »

MrVandemar wrote: post #24
ycta2023 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live on the west coast of north america - the last few years following wildfires my mum heads up to the scorched mountaintops to pick morels and sells them. Big hauls, hundreds of dollars' worth of rare mushrooms growing in ruined forests.

Perhaps the "rare mushrooms" should be left alone. Perhaps they would become less rare. Edit: that's right folks, keep those downvotes coming for suggesting actually conserving something instead of exploiting it.

As far as I agree with the sentiment, mushrooms are the fruit-tip of the mycelium network.

I honestly don’t know if harvesting them change much. ( bare of methodically harvesting everything over a season )

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#26

Post by chasil »

MrVandemar wrote: post #24
ycta2023 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live on the west coast of north america - the last few years following wildfires my mum heads up to the scorched mountaintops to pick morels and sells them. Big hauls, hundreds of dollars' worth of rare mushrooms growing in ruined forests.

Perhaps the "rare mushrooms" should be left alone. Perhaps they would become less rare. Edit: that's right folks, keep those downvotes coming for suggesting actually conserving something instead of exploiting it.

We should put more effort into learning how to farm them, as they are so highly prized.

A hundred years ago, there was enormous production of truffles (fungi with underground fruiting bodies) in Europe, but all of that production was lost when they fell out of favor. They are not the most nutritious use of the land, but lost none the less.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truffle

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#27

Post by speed_spread »

MrVandemar wrote: post #24
ycta2023 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live on the west coast of north america - the last few years following wildfires my mum heads up to the scorched mountaintops to pick morels and sells them. Big hauls, hundreds of dollars' worth of rare mushrooms growing in ruined forests.

Perhaps the "rare mushrooms" should be left alone. Perhaps they would become less rare. Edit: that's right folks, keep those downvotes coming for suggesting actually conserving something instead of exploiting it.

Maybe they were rare because forests didn't use to burn that often.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#28

Post by zeagle »

empyrrhicist wrote: post #9
chasil wrote: post #4

It is well-known that morel mushrooms do very well in a freshly-burned forest. "...black morels (Morchella elata and related species) are mostly found in coniferous forests, disturbed ground and recently burned areas." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella#Association_with_wil...

"Do very well" may not be quite correct. When mycorrhizal hosts die, the organism puts all its energy into escaping the dead end - fruiting and dispersing spores. If there are periodic fires that kill trees, that's a great time to spread to a neighboring area. If giant fire that takes out vast areas, that may be less good.

I'm not sure if that is quite accurate although it is plausible given the negative effect of hotter fires in traditionally fire controlled areas. I read into this a couple years ago and found published data on increased harvests of morels in terms of kg/hectare after large forest fires [example from looking again today 1]. I think as humans we are biased to think above the ground and think of destruction.

There could be a a difference due to an intensely hot fire in an area where fires have been historically suppressed. There is a survey of pickers on whether hotter fires are more or less productive with 29% vs 54% [2] but I don't know the methadology.

[1] 'Approximately 250 000 ha of British Columbia forest lands were burnt (Filmon 2004). In the East Kootenay region alone, a total of 43 679 ha burned that year. Based on this figure, the apparent correlation of morel production with recent wildfire exposure, and the morel production levels observed in random experimental plots (7568 morels per hectare), Keefer (2005) estimated that 76 × 107 kg ascocarps grew in the region in 2003. Assuming the average weight of morels harvested in the region matches the 20 g per ascocarp observed by Pilz et al. (2004) in the United States, this would amount to 2.27 × 107 kg of morels produced in the region during the first flush of 2004. The size and scope of subsequent flushes is unknown but based on observations of two additional flushes in the burnt forest at Lamb Creek (Winder and Keefer 2008), the actual size of the potential morel crop could be tripled from the above estimate' https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/10.1139/B08-045

[2] https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item?id=mr05125&op=pdf&app=Li...

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#29

Post by AnonMessiah »

MrVandemar wrote: post #24
ycta2023 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live on the west coast of north america - the last few years following wildfires my mum heads up to the scorched mountaintops to pick morels and sells them. Big hauls, hundreds of dollars' worth of rare mushrooms growing in ruined forests.

Perhaps the "rare mushrooms" should be left alone. Perhaps they would become less rare. Edit: that's right folks, keep those downvotes coming for suggesting actually conserving something instead of exploiting it.

They aren't really 'rare' they just can't be cultivated in captivity at a commercial scale well due to their need for a symbiotic relationship with trees as well as Morels being very picky about their fruiting triggers. I have seen people successfully 'seed' an area by making a slurry by blending molasses, water, and wild foraged morels that were subpar and letting the spores germinate with a water aerator running in the bucket and dumping the slurry in areas on their property that were favorable to Morels.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#30

Post by empyrrhicist »

zeagle wrote: post #28
empyrrhicist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do very well" may not be quite correct. When mycorrhizal hosts die, the organism puts all its energy into escaping the dead end - fruiting and dispersing spores. If there are periodic fires that kill trees, that's a great time to spread to a neighboring area. If giant fire that takes out vast areas, that may be less good.

I'm not sure if that is quite accurate although it is plausible given the negative effect of hotter fires in traditionally fire controlled areas. I read into this a couple years ago and found published data on increased harvests of morels in terms of kg/hectare after large forest fires [example from looking again today 1]. I think as humans we are biased to think above the ground and think of destruction. There could…

Do those studies look long term though? Increased harvests is exactly what you'd expect from the phenomenon I described.
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