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“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

seymourhersh.substack.com

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Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#541

Post by drewda »

mmastrac wrote: post #97

It's a great story, but it's all unsourced and could be a decent Tom Clancy story at best. You could probably write a similar one with Russia or German agents as the key players and be just as convincing. The only anchor in reality appears to be Biden suggesting that they knew how to take it out which seems like a pretty weak place to build a large story. What I find particularly odd is that this entire thing appears…

Seymour Hersh has decades of credibility from reporting the My Lai Massacre to the abuses at Abu Graib.

But he does often rely on sources who remain anonymous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh#Use_of_anonymous...

I did find it interesting in that Wikipedia article to read that The New Yorker's editor insists on knowing the identify of all of the anonymous sources that Hersh has used when his reporting is published in that magazine. That suggests to me that while Hersh can probably be generally trusted, his work is of a higher quality when it's published in an outlet like The New Yorker, as the editor-in-chief and other staff submit it to a more rigorous internal discussion. That's in comparison to probably no internal review or discussion by Substack.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#542

Post by bjornsing »

edenceover wrote: post #374

> Today, the supreme commander of NATO is Jens Stoltenberg, a committed anti-communist, who served as Norway’s prime minister for eight years before moving to his high NATO post, with American backing, in 2014. He was a hardliner on all things Putin and Russia who had cooperated with the American intelligence community since the Vietnam War. He has been trusted completely since. “He is the glove that fits the America…

I had a similar reaction after reading the brief description of the Swedish navy’s dealings with Russian submarines: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34715500

It’s a bit strange to report on something so controversial and not make sure all verifiable claims are true…

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#543

Post by onlypositive »

weatherlight wrote: post #261

Not a few hours later, 17 hours apart. No military is going to arrange for two pipes in the same general area to be destroyed 17 hours apart. 17 hours to find the second floating sonar device. 17 hours to get caught with your pants down. I'm saying this as former US military here. the Idea that in the middle of a OPORD, of any kind, POTUS would come in last minute and change a detail, like an explosive on a timer (fa…

A lot of people in this thread are making the "no knife no charge" argument.

The rest of us in the world live in reality and just assume the US did this.

Biden threatened it and then it happened. Shocked Pikachu face.

Sure, it could have been someone else, but does it even matter at this point?

PS some of us still remember the rainbow warrior, this move, like that move, has your yank cia stench all over it.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#544

Post by avgcorrection »

edenceover wrote: post #374

> Today, the supreme commander of NATO is Jens Stoltenberg, a committed anti-communist, who served as Norway’s prime minister for eight years before moving to his high NATO post, with American backing, in 2014. He was a hardliner on all things Putin and Russia who had cooperated with the American intelligence community since the Vietnam War. He has been trusted completely since. “He is the glove that fits the America…

> A lot of what he is saying here is not strictly true. Jens Stoltenberg was the leader of the labour party and while he was not a communist, describing him as a committed anti-communist is just plainly wrong.

Would “milquetoast moderate” be more fitting? That’s at least closer to how the Labour Party operates, even though their rhetoric is more left-leaning than the other major party (H).

> He claimed that during the congratulation call from the American president he said that he wanted all Norwegian troops out of Iraq and the the mission. The Americans were adamant he did not.

He said that he said that? How brave of him.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#545

Post by alchemist1e9 »

xg15 wrote: post #535

I find it extremely jarring how many reputable western media outlets immediately jumped to the conclusion that Russia did it even though that made zero sense - but absolutely refused to even consider the possibility that the US or another western state could have done it. But at this point, the article is basically "cool story, bro". The only independently verifyable bits are the public statements of Biden, Nuland, e…

> I find it extremely jarring how many reputable western media outlets immediately jumped to the conclusion that Russia did it even though that made zero sense - but absolutely refused to even consider the possibility that the US or another western state could have done it.

One simple hypothesis would be that it is only an illusion that western media outlets are independent from their governments.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#546

Post by partiallypro »

macinjosh wrote: post #479
partiallypro wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are not even capable to be that stupid But they were stupid enough to invade Ukraine and think they were going to take it over in 2 weeks? But the US itself is just so stupid that it would jeopardize the entire NATO alliance which is critical to US global power? Ok.

Your only concept for what the Russians were thinking when they invaded Ukraine is what western media and politicians have fed you. You don't actually know anything about what they were thinking. lol.

I'd love to read sources on why they started a war they thought they'd win in 2 weeks which now has come to 100,000+ troops lost (on both sides separately.) Please share, because I'm interested in their strategy.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#547

Post by avgcorrection »

mmastrac wrote: post #97

It's a great story, but it's all unsourced and could be a decent Tom Clancy story at best. You could probably write a similar one with Russia or German agents as the key players and be just as convincing. The only anchor in reality appears to be Biden suggesting that they knew how to take it out which seems like a pretty weak place to build a large story. What I find particularly odd is that this entire thing appears…

You’re free to not believe his anonymous source, but this vapid “Tom Clancy” nonsense is uncalled for given that you have no counter-arguments whatsoever.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#548

Post by blub »

archagon wrote: post #481
k1m wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised at the reaction here. There's plenty of stuff posted on HN I don't agree with, but don't think I've ever felt so strongly about a submission that I'd want the rest of the HN community not to read it because of my personal reaction to it. If you don't like something you read on HN, why not let the rest of us read it and make up our own minds? Thanks dang. I'm glad HN has moderators that make calls like.

If you’ve been on HN (or any link-sharing community) for a while, it’s easy to see that certain articles are posted and/or upvoted largely for the sake of zeitgeist-shaping, not out of a sense of intellectual curiosity. This feels like one of those articles.

I’ve been on HN for 10+ years and articles are certainly flagged when they don’t match the zeitgeist.

Anything discussing controversial social topics is nuked. Which would explain the sheer panic and replies to dang: it must be truly terrible to not be able to make undesirable stories disappear instead of having to refute them. :-/

In the end this story doesn’t really present any ironclad proof and should be easy to point that out. Except that would open a discussion which could make the EU and US look quite poorly…

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#549

Post by 0xDEF »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #515

The fact that this subject is able to trigger so much controversy on HN is fascinating. I could understand if diplomats and politicians were upset, but regular techies?

From my experience European techies are one of the most pro-Ukrainian and anti-Putin/Russia demographics in the world right now so that shouldn't be surprising.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#550

Post by AnonymousPlanet »

oezi wrote: post #358
rsync wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You could probably write a similar one with Russia ..." I disagree - there is no credible motive here for Russia and, in fact, the outcome was directly opposed to every outcome they are, or were trying, to achieve. Not only do I, as a US citizen, believe that the US perpetrated this act but further: I believe it is an overtly hostile action against EU citizens and, particularly, Germans, who will suffer the most eco…

The amount of LNG gas remains insignificant so far. Germany also hasn't signed any significant contract with the US but rather with Qatar. To give you one credible motive for Russian involvement: Russia cut off Europe of Gas supplies to get leverage on the Ukraine conflict, but this largely failed as European countries pooled their gas reserves and vowed to move away from Russian gas. As Russia could see that this ma…

It was a hostage situation. "You want to quit our gas? See how you're going to fare when winter comes and you can't fill your storage in time."

In September it was already clear that a weak polar vortex would make for a frosty winter in the northern hemisphere. It was just luck (for Europe) that it hit North America and not Europe. During summer in Germany every week more people were drumming up (literally) demands to open Nord Stream 2.

There was no way of being sure a German government wouldn't flip under pressure once people were freezing and showing up with torches at the Reichstag.

But one September night someone went in and shot the hostages...

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