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“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

seymourhersh.substack.com

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Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#521

Post by graton »

Reason077 wrote: post #455
VincentEvans wrote: post #176

Gazprom, Russian gas monopoly, has on Kremlin’s orders first threatened to, and then suspended gas supplies to Europe in an attempt to blackmail it to stop supporting Ukraine under a threat of, as they put it, “freezing Europe”. In the process unilaterally breaking existing delivery contracts. There were no Western sanctions targeting Russian gas - it was entirely a political operation initiated by Russian government…

It doesn't make sense that Russia would blow up their own pipeline. They can't blackmail Europe with gas if there's no pipeline to supply the gas. And force majeure? That's pretty far-fetched. Why would Russia care about financial penalties? This is the country that effectively stole over 400 airliners by refusing to return them when the leases were terminated.

One pipeline was not blown up and can carry 27.5 billion cubic meters per year. So it is still technically possible to send gas through that pipeline.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/single-line-nord-str...

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#522

Post by airtonix »

throwayyy479087 wrote: post #492
tlear wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is right that sonar buoy detonation thing sounds like absolute bullshit. Incredibly risky and 17 hours.. I mean you want to do this, send a submarine, it fires few torpedoes. No more pipeline. Fast, simple, reliable. Let's say I am a Ukranian patriot, with few million in the bank. I bet given few month I could put together a team of divers to plant some C4 with a simple timer and blow this thing to hell. Or Polish…

I think it’s the Polish. Apparently their relationship with Russia is similar to a very angry pitbull has with steak. They were mass rapes by the Soviets at the end of World War II and horrible conditions for the Polish during the Soviet empire. Polish friends say there’s no shortage of young men who want the glory of blowing up something owned by the people who gang raped Grandma.

[dead]

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#524

Post by qaz_plm »

macinjosh wrote: post #479
partiallypro wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are not even capable to be that stupid But they were stupid enough to invade Ukraine and think they were going to take it over in 2 weeks? But the US itself is just so stupid that it would jeopardize the entire NATO alliance which is critical to US global power? Ok.

Your only concept for what the Russians were thinking when they invaded Ukraine is what western media and politicians have fed you. You don't actually know anything about what they were thinking. lol.

Where can I read more about “what they were thinking?”

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#525

Post by photochemsyn »

There are a lot of details presented so it seems further investigation is warranted. As far as "Why American would want to take out the Nordstream pipeline", there's been an ongoing desire to get Europe to buy US LNG tanker gas to meet domestic energy demand, instead of Russian pipeline gas, and blowing up the pipeline is a step in that direction.

Of course, the optimal solution for Europe would have been to start massive renewable infrastructure development over a decade ago, then they'd be on their way to not needing any gas imports, instead of having their domestic economy held hostage like this. The rest of the world would be wise to think in these terms - fundamental necessities like energy should not be subject to the random fluctuations of global supply chains due to wars, pandemics, etc.

It's very reckless behavior if true, essentially an act of war. I can't imagine Washington politicians responding with calm deliberation if someone was blowing up US LNG tankers, for comparison.

The story does sound a little strange, but who knows? I'd have suspected the explosives were planted by underwater rover / submarine but maybe human divers are less detectable.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#526

Post by avgcorrection »

torstenvl wrote: post #71
dang wrote: post #34

All: Whether he is right or not or one likes him or not, Hersh reporting on this counts as significant new information ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... ), so I've turned off the flags on this submission. If you're going to comment in this thread, please make sure you're up on the site guidlelines ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ) and note this one: " Comments should…

Dan, I respectfully ask you to reconsider. This is a poorly-sourced speculative piece of propaganda and clearly goes against site guidelines. You repeat, above, that HN is not for nationalist flamewar, and requires substance. But this post is nationalist flamewar and isn't substantive. Allowing it while shutting down similar content from the opposite perspective is... unsettling.

It’s not propaganda. It’s certainly much less propagandistic than the average coverage of the Ukraine war.

The article has an anonymous source. Your comment complains about “propaganda” and “nationalist flamewar” (unfounded) and asks for moderation. The submission is more substantive than your comment.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#527

Post by AdamJacobMuller »

ravi-delia wrote: post #512
hedora wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it actually say that anywhere? I read the first half of the article, and skimmed the second. It doesn't claim to be sourced from anywhere, and the only paragraph that discusses sources and fact checking is when they point out the White House says the entire article is a work of fiction. It doesn't present any evidence that it happened (other than that the US has a big swimming pool that the navy trains in), and…

It claims that the info came from someone "with direct knowledge of the operational planning"

And it includes direct quotes from that person in the last paragraphs. It was clearly someone Hersh spoke to directly.

While I am extraordinarily distrustful of news reports using anonymous sources you do have to consider the author here. Ultimately we are deciding if we trust him and, for me personally, he lends a lot of credibility.

The other side of this is, duh, of course America blew up the pipeline. I said at the time that we were the most likely culprit.

There's a very small subset of groups who have the capability to do this and even fewer who have the motivation. It forces Germany/EU to stop buying NG from Russia and start buying LNG from the US (among others) with exceptionally minimal political risk to the US.

The US will just continue to deny that we did it, this article will get no traction in mainstream media. If incontrovertible proof ever did surface the media will just bury the story and if anyone involved is forced to comment they will just spin it as a good and necessary and just thing that they did to help Ukraine with a dose of natural gas bad because of climate change and all will be forgiven.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#528

Post by avgcorrection »

nindalf wrote: post #180
dang wrote: post #34

All: Whether he is right or not or one likes him or not, Hersh reporting on this counts as significant new information ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... ), so I've turned off the flags on this submission. If you're going to comment in this thread, please make sure you're up on the site guidlelines ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ) and note this one: " Comments should…

Dan there’s no sugarcoating this - you’ve got it wrong on this one. I say this as a supporter of your moderation policies in general. The sooner you reverse this decision, the better for everyone.

So many backseat moderators without any arguments in the replies.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#529

Post by k1m »

archagon wrote: post #504
k1m wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And who determines what's been posted for zeitgeist-shaping or intellectual curiousity? And what can we say about those who have been frantically flagging this submission so their fellow community members don't get to read it?

Well, the community decides. By flagging. Which was, in this case, ignored by fiat. Moreover, the article has little to do with tech and has obviously loaded statements such as this: > From its earliest days, Nord Stream 1 was seen by Washington and its anti-Russian NATO partners as a threat to western dominance. If we can’t filter out misinformation and propaganda, we are screwed as a community. ( Is this misinforma…

> Is this misinformation/propaganda? Maybe, maybe not, but false positives are better in cases like this than false negatives.

You question people's motivation when it comes to submissions. Why not when it comes to flagging? Does it foster intellectual curiousity to flag a story by a renowned investigative journalist?

In any case, what's surprising to me here is the reaction to dang's reasonable justification for disabling the flags on this story. I think those who continue to push for its removal after flagging have moved beyond "I personally don't think it's a suitable topic" to "I don't want anyone else to read it". I find the latter attitude very worrying.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#530

Post by 0xDEF »

officehero wrote: post #473
Laaas wrote: post #328

It is bewildering how many here are against this post staying up; no matter whether it's true or not, it's an interesting article! If you feel it is not true, why take it down rather than simply state your opinion in the comments? Do we not have the freedom to discuss and form our own opinions about it?

As a former resident in Russia I'm shocked at how all state controlled media from Russia has been completely censored in the west. I understand why it's done (bcs it breeds conspiracies etc) but it's not for free because now people don't get any 'alternative' view on the matter. Censorship is a tricky thing

The EU has asked Twitter and Facebook to not allow direct linking to Russian state media. However I can still access TASS, Russia Today, and all other Russian state media.

The US has no such censorship against Russian media.

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