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“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

seymourhersh.substack.com

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Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#501

Post by nivenkos »

dragonwriter wrote: post #456
rank0 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Russia tried to send a message by……destroying its own infrastructure?! It was their biggest leverage over the EU. Now it’s gone and there’s no possibility of restoring Russian gas flows to the EU. If they were gonna destroy critical international infrastructure wouldn’t it make more sense to blow up something else?

> If they were gonna destroy critical international infrastructure wouldn’t it make more sense to blow up something else? No, if they were going to make a threat and capacity demonstration against other, active natural gas pipelines in the region, destroying an idle natural gas pipeline makes a lot more sense than “something else”. (There’s a certain extent to which it doesn’t make sense to make idle threats without…

That would be outright war, they don't need to threaten that at all, if it got to that point they might as well just nuke Berlin.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#502

Post by reducesuffering »

ianburrell wrote: post #446
edenceover wrote: post #374

> Today, the supreme commander of NATO is Jens Stoltenberg, a committed anti-communist, who served as Norway’s prime minister for eight years before moving to his high NATO post, with American backing, in 2014. He was a hardliner on all things Putin and Russia who had cooperated with the American intelligence community since the Vietnam War. He has been trusted completely since. “He is the glove that fits the America…

Also, Supreme Allied Commander Europe is General Cavoli. Stoltenberg is Secretary General of NATO. The former is what most people would call the "supreme commander" since has military operational command. He is American so immediately suspect. In between there is Chair of the NATO Military Committee, who is Dutch admiral.

Yep. Gell Mann Amnesia in full effect here. Everything you two have said are basic geopolitical knowledge blunders and it's clear Hersh has lost his intellectual bearing the last decade as he's now 85...

Hersh: "Today, the supreme commander of NATO is Jens Stoltenberg"

Reality: Jens Stoltenberg is the secretary general of NATO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Allied_Commander_Europ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Stoltenberg

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#503

Post by GAN_Game »

waiseristy wrote: post #152
LarryMullins wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Man, the author (no idea who that is...) Seymour Hersh, famous for his coverage of the My Lai massacre, Project Azorian, and more. You probably should know him.

Seymour Hersh, also a advocate of the Syrian rebel chemical weapon conspiracy and is a Osama Bin Laden death truther. Maybe we should also include his later work as well?

> a Osama Bin Laden death truther

The "mainstream" "establishment" position on the death of Osama Bin Laden is that Bin Laden was living in the middle of Abbottabad, which is the Pakistani equivalent of the town of West Point, and no high level Pakistani Army official knew he was there, and no high level Pakistani government official knew he was there.

It is a completely absurd story. The "truthers" are the people who believe that story. The White House gave a lot of information about bin Laden's death, as well as the Pentagon, and the government had to walk back some of their story shortly after. The New York Times reported the government statements as fact, although later another section of the paper printed some of the questions about the mainstream narrative. This caused an internal Times squabble, some of the "memoes" of which were subsequently leaked.

If you want a better account of what happened, read the Pakistani press.

The ISI worked with the US and bin Laden hand in glove in the 1980s. The idea no one high up on Pakistani intelligence, government or military knew he was there is absurd. Yet you call this "truther".

> a advocate of the Syrian rebel chemical weapon conspiracy

Chemical weapons were released in Douma. The rebels and government blamed each other. If the "conspiracy" as you call it that the rebels released it were true, it would tend to have been a mishandling of them - a mistake. Hersh reported on the attack, including information pointing to the rebels controlling it. I have no idea who had control of the weapons - it could have been the government as you imply. I don't have a problem with Hersh reporting on the information he had on that.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#504

Post by archagon »

k1m wrote: post #490
archagon wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’ve been on HN (or any link-sharing community) for a while, it’s easy to see that certain articles are posted and/or upvoted largely for the sake of zeitgeist-shaping, not out of a sense of intellectual curiosity. This feels like one of those articles.

And who determines what's been posted for zeitgeist-shaping or intellectual curiousity? And what can we say about those who have been frantically flagging this submission so their fellow community members don't get to read it?

Well, the community decides. By flagging. Which was, in this case, ignored by fiat.

Moreover, the article has little to do with tech and has obviously loaded statements such as this:

> From its earliest days, Nord Stream 1 was seen by Washington and its anti-Russian NATO partners as a threat to western dominance.

If we can’t filter out misinformation and propaganda, we are screwed as a community. (Is this misinformation/propaganda? Maybe, maybe not, but better to have false positives in cases like this.)

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#506

Post by Animatronio »

pillefitz wrote: post #345
twoquestions wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts exactly. If this is true and more evidence comes out, the usual suspects will be screaming it from the rooftops, if not this narrative will die in obscurity. There's been a lot of misinformation about this war, and a bunch of people who for a variety of reasons want to blame the US for it and are willing to believe some incredible things if they support that narrative.

It's really not far fetched to believe the US did it - or any Eastern European country, for that matter.

Yup, Hungary Navy Seals are most definitely behind this.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#507

Post by andrewflnr »

VincentEvans wrote: post #191
steponlego wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't we just properly view the gas reductions for what they are - a form of sanctioning?

Kremlin sanctioned themselves? Or are you presenting the suspension of gas supplies to Europe by Russia as a sort of “retaliatory sanctions”? That’s fine of course, it’s like North Korea cutting off themselves from the world and starving as a way to punish the world for interfering in its internal matters as they relate to nuclear weapons.

They're saying the US did it, in coordination with their "other" sanctions, in agreement with the article and opposition to the commenter. I don't think this was a hard puzzle.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#508

Post by dghlsakjg »

Tepix wrote: post #472
stephc_int13 wrote: post #471

There is one thing that is really bothering me in this story. I don't really care who is behind the sabotage, they would certainly not admit it for obvious reasons, and it could be more complex than it seems. But the press, here in the UK, in France and in the US, has been suspiciously "clueless", avoiding with great care to imply that anyone in the west could be behind it, even if it really seems obvious that it cou…

Such an action would be an act of war and uncovering it - in the US - likely seen as unpatriotic or worse.

Any US journalistic outlet would KILL to be first to report on this.

The US loves its military, but American news sources have no want to keep a secret like this on behalf of the government. The US media loves to report on US war crimes, and other stupid government shit

It wouldn't surprise me to know that the US government had knowledge of this. It would surprise me if they were directly involved though.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#509

Post by ghostwriter »

ohmaigad wrote: post #491
ghostwriter wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to tell you, but the US think-tanks have been saying it for years that the Baltic states are there in their current configuration to only restrain Russia from forming closer ties with Germany: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UcXiUYLgbo They even have a term for it - "Cordon sanitaire": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordon_sanitaire_(internationa...

Oh yes, the mighty Baltic states who are able to somehow lock down Russian ties to Germany. By that logic the NS2 should have never happened or German reliance to Russian gas in general. This sounds like the same stuff Russians were claiming at some point - that the Baltics are the main players in West geopolitics or what not. What that think tank is saying make no sense, as invading/controlling Ukraine is not making…

To be frank, they don't mention a thing about the Baltics' might or political prowess, they only enumerate a preferred political alignment in foreing policies of such states so that it becomes instrumental to the US in their own foreign relations with both Germany and Russia.
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