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The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

321–330 of 565 posts

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#321

All the things he cites are lagging indicators. Self-harm and suicide typically follow long, long battles with mental health issues; they're not the first thing that happens, or even close. Diagnoses are also typically far from immediate; having depression and being diagnosed with depression are two very different things. (And without increased awareness, many people never get care and are never diagnosed.) As such,…

How does that apply to children though? They haven’t got a lot of time that’s earlier as they would be too young. Additionally, a key part of a child’s behaviour is that it’s impulsive.

The cohort before would have gone undiagnosed. Time works the same way whether you're looking at tranches or a rolling window of the population.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#322

While I don't doubt that social media can have a negative impact on teens... my own experience as the parent of a teen is slightly different and doesn't point to social media as being a driver. At least in my case. I have a teenager that struggles with anxiety, low self-esteem and depression. He's incredibly smart and is an honors student in high school. BUT he also thinks he's terrible and he's incapable of acceptin…

That's also within the norm for teenagerdom historically.

Also try sports. Team sports.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#323
girls 15-19 that self harmed: 0.45% -> 0.7%. A 47% increase!

boys 15-19 that died by suicide: 0.01% -> 0.016%. A 34% increase!

Relative increase percentages (i.e. exponentials) are misleading when they are measuring linear phenomena like suicide rate. You could just as easily say there was a 0.1% decrease in the percent of boys who didn't die by suicide.

It's misleading because the new 0.006% of male suicides are unrelated to the existing 0.01%.

Suicide rate is not a ROI or conversion rate. Use absolute percentages please. I get they're writing to accentuate big impact -- and suicide is a big deal -- but this is disingenuous.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#324
post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

Here we go, everyone gets to share their stress story. Time to filter all comments that start with "I..."

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#325
Interesting article.

FWIW, I graduated from Redwood High School in Marin County, CA in 2014. Redwood had ~1600 students and many were high achievers, and many came from middle-class or upper-class families. We were a blue ribbon school, probably with a hefty PTA budget and a myriad of AP courses and honors classes available. We had some dedicated teachers too. We even had a ceramics room, a music building, a beautiful gym, track, and field. There was a drama program, and of course the drama room smelled of illicit substances, but they did deliver impressive improv shows. Our graduating class had a record number of students who had achieved honor roll or higher GPAs.

To my knowledge, there were some bullying incidents at our school, but the rate was said to be relatively low. I knew at least one person who had been cyber-bullied. We had one suicide that I can remember — a girl who I didn’t know very well but shared maybe one or two classes with my freshman year. It was tragic to hear of her family’s loss when it happened, and looking back at the few interactions I had with her, I would not have pegged her to be at risk. She seemed like someone who would have no trouble making friends or performing in school. Most of the suicides we heard of came out of different schools in the Bay Area that were even more academically challenging. St. Ignatius or “S.I.”, a private school in San Francisco was infamous for their suicides.

In reflection, I didn’t invest as much as I should have in getting to know more of these individuals while in high school — I was shy, but mostly bored, fixated on keeping my grades up to impress a favorable profile to universities, and fatigued about how fake so much of life seemed to be. During our graduation ceremony I realized if that I could have and should have taken more of an interest in getting to know more of my peers, and participating in their lives. High school students aren’t fake people, even if high school feels fabricated and pointless. Social media wasn’t a huge problem for me, but it did have an effect of making me think that some people appeared quite dull — I have learned my lesson not to be deceived.

For me, social media amplified the feeling of being stuck — a feeling that was already exuded by the physical form of our school, which was designed by the same architect who did San Quentin State Prison. It also amplified a story people could create about themselves or others. We saw that gave people an opportunity to weave themselves into a web of negative self-image or belief about others, or the world. It seems to do this effortlessly, while excluding the human contact that usually comes along with in-person communication. For kids who have an abusive parent, I suspect that this was particularly insidious because social media empowered parents to be more involved in their children’s social dynamic than before. While a lot of people were saying that it’s important to keep an eye on your child’s internet activity, I suspect that some parents with abusive tendencies took advantage of this and misused it to the detriment of their children.

There is the apparent option to delete one’s profile, but that doesn’t stop others from mentioning you or posting photos that you are in. And someone’s absence on social media is potentially a statement itself. What would you make of a job candidate has no presence at all on LinkedIn? (To clarify, this last question is posed to ask you to consider it and I don’t mean to plant a particular answer in your head).

Perhaps the most damning impact of it on our generation is that it was a pervasive opportunity for kids to fail forever. The school would undoubtedly respond in some punitive way to anyone with online presence or interest that may, in any way, be deemed negative, and on top of all that, the media itself has its own algorithm and presumably saves all the data forever. Kids had to either censor themselves more carefully in communications online, or risk the consequences. This is the biggest issue I see that has contributed to a whole generation of people that doesn’t feel safe to express a unique opinion, and perhaps fears being judged. It’s one thing to be surveilled by the government. It is another entirely to be surveilled by people in your peer group, your community, and your friends. We’ve been taught that if you appear to think a certain way, then you are done. Period. Until then, come play in school rallies and don’t mind the police officer who is watching you the whole time.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#326
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40% of high school students don't go to college (of any type). Of those, only a tiny portion are focused on elite universities. Many are just going to Long Beach State, University of Redlands and other 4 year schools that you've never heard of. They have lax admissions. Among adult Americans, only a third have bachelors degrees. Certainly the high pressure scholastic environment of certain high schools is not common.

> Among adult Americans, only a third have bachelors degrees Sure, but this is very skewed by older Americans having low rates of degrees. A lot more than 33% of current American 24 year-olds have Bachelors degrees. And that more accurately reflects the expectations on teenagers than low rates of degrees among Boomers.

In the U.S., around 86% of kids graduate high school[1], around 63% of high school graduates go to 4-year colleges[2], and around 64% of them graduate within 6 years[3].

By that logic around 35% of 24-year-old Americans have bachelor degrees. More than a third, but not by much.

[1] https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/coi/high-school-g... [2] https://educationdata.org/college-enrollment-statistics [3] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have an 18 year old son without a mobile phone? I would think it is at least needed for all the logins requiring SMS 2FA.

Yes. They gave him an iPad, but none of their systems use SSO of any kind. He doesn't really care for the iPad, doesn't have a mobile phone, and doesn't do social. He does do Minecraft, KSP, and Davinci Resolve.

I would assume at that point he's on other platforms like Discord/Telegram instead of the usual social networks.

Or has a cheap prepaid plan and smart phone the parents will never know about.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly see value in comparing scars? Does that matter in any meaningful way? The worst stress of someone's life is the worst stress of their life. It's unproductive and petty to bicker about who has it worse. If life is stressful for anyone, regardless of status, title, age, etc. there's a good chance it's undeserved. The takeaway is to treat people better, not dismiss their stressors as less significant.

The parent comment was asserting that STEM types are “high anxiety” and implicitly dismissing non-STEM people as somehow having less anxiety. I think it is fair and healthy to acknowledge that, as you say, everyone has “the worst stress of their life”, regardless of STEM-ness.

I interpreted the comment differently. I thought it was saying that the pressures and anxieties of 'high anxiety' STEM people are not necessarily representative of the average person's experience. I.e. saying that the readers of hacker news are more likely to feel the stresses of feeling the need to be hyper successful, whereas others migh on average be more well adjusted

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#329

I think this idea that the teen mental illness epidemic began in 2012 is probably wrong. What is far more likely is that society began to open up more to these ideas, more people got diagnosed than before, and more young people identified with these struggles and felt more comfortable talking about them. Susanna Kaysen's 1993 mental health memoir "Girl, Interrupted", which recounts her experience as a young female ad…

>society began to open up more to these ideas

I'm a late 80s Gulf Coast America kid and any talk about therapy of depression growing up in the 90s/2000s was met with disbelief or family being upset that I'm not praying enough to Jesus. Those same people are now gladly taking anti-anxiety meds and dabbling in therapy.

It was obvious to me as a kid that plenty of people need some form of help or therapy even if it's just being open and honest about issues and feelings to those around them.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in a bubble. It's nowhere near that hard to get into non-elite universities, which the vast majority of college-bound students attend. Just keeping your grades up and doing well on a standardized test will get you into a good (well-regarded in at least some fields, very well-known at least regionally) state school—and the ones in the next couple tiers under that are even more lax. Then there are community coll…

Im an immigrant that attended a community college, transferred to a “top 10 CS Uni”. the CC didn’t even acknowledge the school I went to exists so i just took some placement tests that landed me at Calc 1 etc most americans dont know how good they have it, sure things could be better but you’re literally better off than most of the world no matter what class you’re born in here

I think community colleges are one of those under-appreciated excellent institutions the US has (in addition to our institutions and systems that actually do kinda suck, compared to our peers, that get a lot more attention). They're available just about everywhere that many people live, it's pretty easy to get them to give you a chance unless you have a very recent history of being a committed academic screw-up—even if your history's a bit unusual, or you've had some screw-ups farther in the past—and in a couple years you can establish a record that represents a big step toward achieving an at-least middling life outcome, while opening up access to the next steps.

I hope the admissions process and the rest of it was still relatively painless, despite their not recognizing your school. I'm sure immigration itself was pretty unpleasant—sorry about that :-/

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