Live data from Hacker News

“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

seymourhersh.substack.com

441–450 of 1001 posts

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This gatekeeping is ridiculous It is not gatekeeping to demand that extraordinary claims are backed up by evidence. And there is an absence of evidence here.

It is nothing but gatekeeping if you are requesting the removal of a post that many consider interesting (the only threshhold it needs to cross).

> (the only threshhold it needs to cross).

Nope. The normal flagging rules are a sperate threshold.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#442
post #2

Seymour doesn’t provide any proof or any evidence. It’s argument by assertion. What he writes is plausible but without any sources or other corroborating evidence. I think it more believable that Seymour has been paid to write this by a Russian aligned entity. I don’t know the truth of the matter and Seymour could be right. We just can’t tell from the evidence provided.

The story is credible. Is it true? This is not enough information to decide that, because, as you say it, there are no sources or other corroborating evidence. But it does host a starting point for future discussion due to the fact that it offers relatively detailed pieces of information. Now it's up to others to come out and say "this is true, that is not", people who actually do have provable information. It offers…

The story doesn't even claim it is credible. It claims the White House says the rest of the article is fiction, and provides no counterargument or evidence that contradicts the White House's statement.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#444
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You could probably write a similar one with Russia ..." I disagree - there is no credible motive here for Russia and, in fact, the outcome was directly opposed to every outcome they are, or were trying, to achieve. Not only do I, as a US citizen, believe that the US perpetrated this act but further: I believe it is an overtly hostile action against EU citizens and, particularly, Germans, who will suffer the most eco…

As an EU citizen living next to Russia I can assure you, I'm DELIGHTED that people can no longer buy gas from a mass murderer like Putin. Anyone who buys gas from Russia is essentially supporting genocide of Ukrainian civilians, if suffering is what we're talking about. Besides, things are going on pretty okay. Electricity prices are stabilizing and Europe will eventually become greener as well. No matter who did it,…

> Anyone who buys gas from Russia is essentially supporting genocide of Ukrainian civilians, if suffering is what we're talking about.

Weekly snapshot: Russian fossil fuel exports 16 to 22 January 2023:

* The week of 16 to 22 January 2023, the EU was the largest importer of Russian fossil fuels.

* The EU imported pipeline gas, oil products and LNG, as well as crude oil via pipeline or rail.

* The top five EU importer countries last week were the Netherlands, Slovakia, Germany, Belgium and Italy. [1]

[1] https://energyandcleanair.org/weekly-snapshot-russian-fossil...

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#445
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dan, I respectfully ask you to reconsider. This is a poorly-sourced speculative piece of propaganda and clearly goes against site guidelines. You repeat, above, that HN is not for nationalist flamewar, and requires substance. But this post is nationalist flamewar and isn't substantive. Allowing it while shutting down similar content from the opposite perspective is... unsettling.

I'll read the article and reconsider. I haven't had time to even look at it yet. The moderation call here isn't based on agreeing, disagreeing, liking, or disliking. It just seems like an obvious interesting event, that's all. Edit: Ok, I've read the first half and looked over the second half, and I think the moderation call was the correct one. Not saying this to pile on; I just wanted to report back.

Thank you. There's such scant citations across the whole article. There are countless factual assertions with no note about the source for the assertion, and absolutely no way for readers to validate any of the new information here. There aren't even multiple anonymous sources, just mentions "some guy", and doesn't even directly attribute the vast majority of the claims to that guy.

I don't actually doubt the veracity of this information. But it's grossly irresponsible to publish "some guy's" claims as facts!!

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#446

> Today, the supreme commander of NATO is Jens Stoltenberg, a committed anti-communist, who served as Norway’s prime minister for eight years before moving to his high NATO post, with American backing, in 2014. He was a hardliner on all things Putin and Russia who had cooperated with the American intelligence community since the Vietnam War. He has been trusted completely since. “He is the glove that fits the America…

Also, Supreme Allied Commander Europe is General Cavoli. Stoltenberg is Secretary General of NATO. The former is what most people would call the "supreme commander" since has military operational command. He is American so immediately suspect. In between there is Chair of the NATO Military Committee, who is Dutch admiral.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These tensions have been brewing between NATO (mostly America) and Russia for at least a decade. It's unfortunate that the situation escalated in Ukraine though, which AFAIK is the victim in the scheming and plotting of those two powers. As a person from Eastern Europe this is literal Russian propaganda or in simple words - dogshit. You know why somebody like Baltic countries wanted to get in NATO? Because Russia w…

Maybe you're right. I honestly don't know. But I only have so much time in a day to veryfy everything. I'm talking from memory of course, but this Ukraine invasion didn't "come out of the blue" AFAIK. Here's a collection of sources compiled by someone on Quora. I dont know how biased or accurate this person is. However, there were other instances that made me think this isn't so black-and-white or "clean" as I'd like…

Just by peaking over the Quora article it is enough to say it is a Russian propaganda piece, things like some UA nazis (Russians also have some nazi admirers), the "referendums" and so on. Even if these referendums were legit, does it really trump a nations sovereignty (I am talking from my own experience as a lot of Russians were imported and locals deported in my country during the Soviet occupation and these people never integrated and probably even today there are regions where the population is mainly these Russian imports who would gladly be part of Russia). The main issue is that Russia has the view of "either you are with us or against us" so if you don't play ball we will going to "fuck you". Personally, i think that nobody understand Russia better than Eastern Europeans and the West is pretty much failing (at least the EU West who thought that playing ball with Russia will get them to back off) - https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-that-warned-about-... The Baltics have pretty much lived all their freedom years under Russian propaganda, let it be claims that we are nazis, russophobes and any other type of oppressors of the Russian people or even a threat of Russia itself. So seeing how many in the West are falling for Russian bullshit is just sad.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#448
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because it's interesting No. It's interesting to you .

Yes and no. Yes in the sense that you can't take the human being out of the moderator, nor would it be good to try. No in the sense that I'm not moderating HN just according to my personal interests—it would be very different if I did. As a matter of fact, I spend every day denying my own preferences about HN. That doesn't make me objective (far from it), but I do at least have a lot of practice. It's a matter of str…

> community is not the same as commenters because most readers don't comment

Do you have stats on what percent of regular HN readers have ever commented on any story? Or are stats more like, for every 100 readers of a story, 1 will comment on that story? To put another way: if I read 100 stories and comment on 1, would I be counted as lurking 99 times and posting 1?

Basically, I'm curious if engagement is lopsided toward lurking because some users never comment, or because most users never comment on every story they read.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#449
post #432

It's a great story, but it's all unsourced and could be a decent Tom Clancy story at best. You could probably write a similar one with Russia or German agents as the key players and be just as convincing. The only anchor in reality appears to be Biden suggesting that they knew how to take it out which seems like a pretty weak place to build a large story. What I find particularly odd is that this entire thing appears…

> It's a great story, but it's all unsourced and could be a decent Tom Clancy story at best. You could probably write a similar one with Russia or German agents as the key players and be just as convincing. That's why there were several explosions: Everyone was blowing it up at the same time, unbeknownst of each other's plans.

Just imagine the debriefing questions: Why did you guys blow up the wrong pipeline, and two hours before schedule????

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#450
post #382

Not a few hours later, 17 hours apart. No military is going to arrange for two pipes in the same general area to be destroyed 17 hours apart. 17 hours to find the second floating sonar device. 17 hours to get caught with your pants down. I'm saying this as former US military here. the Idea that in the middle of a OPORD, of any kind, POTUS would come in last minute and change a detail, like an explosive on a timer (fa…

Since it was established that the destruction was caused by explosives, what is your argument? The US is too competent to do such a bad job (17 hours apart and only 3 of 4 pipes destroyed)? Does this imply we have a rogue actor or insufficiently equipped one to blame? Who?

He is right that sonar buoy detonation thing sounds like absolute bullshit. Incredibly risky and 17 hours.. I mean you want to do this, send a submarine, it fires few torpedoes. No more pipeline. Fast, simple, reliable.

Let's say I am a Ukranian patriot, with few million in the bank. I bet given few month I could put together a team of divers to plant some C4 with a simple timer and blow this thing to hell. Or Polish patriot, or Polish government or any of the Baltic states. It is an existential struggle for all of them, and russkie understand one thing and one thing only, this was a very clear communication straight to Putin.

Post reply on HN