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Transparent telemetry for open-source projects

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Re: Transparent telemetry for open-source projects

#71

Probably related to[0]. To anybody complaining that this should be opt-in: opt-in telemetry doesn't work. The reason for this is that most people don't care, but they don't care either way. They don't disable it when prompted, nor would they enable it manually. The idea of telemetry is being able to prioritize the work that will be most widely useful. For this you need a good and balanced sample of your users. You do…

> The idea of telemetry is being able to prioritize the work that will be most widely useful.

It does sort of hinge on the highly suspect assumption that usefulness is correlated with use. An obvious counter-example to this is something like a fire-extinguisher, which will in the ideal case just sit on a wall until it's use-by date passes and then it's discarded having never been used; or on the flip side, an incredibly byzantine workflow that could be reduced to something much simpler will appear important and useful.

Even without these edge cases, interpreting statistics is really hard. Like people with PhDs who have studied these things for years still get them wrong all the time.

What ends up happening more often than not is it's used as a tool to quiet the critics when pushing through unpopular changes.

Re: Transparent telemetry for open-source projects

#73

Probably related to[0]. To anybody complaining that this should be opt-in: opt-in telemetry doesn't work. The reason for this is that most people don't care, but they don't care either way. They don't disable it when prompted, nor would they enable it manually. The idea of telemetry is being able to prioritize the work that will be most widely useful. For this you need a good and balanced sample of your users. You do…

The argument for this being opt-in isn't about "it works better", it is about it being ethically correct. There are a ton of things that "don't work" unless you do something unethical: that doesn't mean they are OK, it doesn't mean they should be tolerated, and it doesn't mean the people who do them--and, at the end of the day, it is people who make these decisions: there is a human being who refused to say "no" and whose name we might even be able to find out--shouldn't be judged by their peers for doing these things... and that is all true even if it is (currently) legal for them to do it!!

Re: Transparent telemetry for open-source projects

#77
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running the command in that just shows me a message of "go: unknown go command variable GOTELEMETRY"

Because this proposal has not yet been implemented.

So is there a way to disable this ahead of time? Or do I have to install the version with telemetry first?

Re: Transparent telemetry for open-source projects

#78

Probably related to[0]. To anybody complaining that this should be opt-in: opt-in telemetry doesn't work. The reason for this is that most people don't care, but they don't care either way. They don't disable it when prompted, nor would they enable it manually. The idea of telemetry is being able to prioritize the work that will be most widely useful. For this you need a good and balanced sample of your users. You do…

> The idea of telemetry is being able to prioritize the work that will be most widely useful. It does sort of hinge on the highly suspect assumption that usefulness is correlated with use. An obvious counter-example to this is something like a fire-extinguisher, which will in the ideal case just sit on a wall until it's use-by date passes and then it's discarded having never been used; or on the flip side, an incredi…

All this boils down to "an unskilled engineer will misinterpret data even if they have it". I'll assume the Go team knows what they're doing, based on their track record so far.

There's a lot of very simple questions you can answer very reliably, too, like "what proportion of the users are still using a certain compatibility flag".

Re: Transparent telemetry for open-source projects

#79

Probably related to[0]. To anybody complaining that this should be opt-in: opt-in telemetry doesn't work. The reason for this is that most people don't care, but they don't care either way. They don't disable it when prompted, nor would they enable it manually. The idea of telemetry is being able to prioritize the work that will be most widely useful. For this you need a good and balanced sample of your users. You do…

> What I do think however, is that it should very clearly notify the user of this, and give them an easy way to disable it.

You make a good point.

As a for instance from a popular Mac-based package manager that (unexpectedly for many) defaults to telemetry from your CLI:

`brew analytics off` is not hard to type after installing homebrew, but the installation text doesn't mention that; instead it points to a web page you have to read about how wonderful the analytics are before eventually finding the incantation:

https://docs.brew.sh/Analytics

I wonder how many people care enough to click that link, read all the "analytics are actually good for you" copy, and then change their mind to leave it on. I'm guessing almost zero?

But perhaps most users won't cut and paste the link, where if it just suggested `brew analytics off` many users would type it.

Re: Transparent telemetry for open-source projects

#80

Oh Google - never stop being you. Not only is it going to be opt-out (because of course it would be coming from Google), I really like the whole "wait a week before sending telemetry" part that just coincidentally has the benefit of sneaking right past people that actively look for suspicious network activity when they've freshly installed something. Am I being uncharitable?

Very popular programming language and IDE have telemetry on by default, VSCode, C#, Java etc ...

People act like they discover telemetry in 2023.

I don't think it's a big deal, ultimately it's to improve Go and the proposal makes it very easy to disable it ( single env variable ).

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