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The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#191

Post by mattgreenrocks »

munificent wrote: post #140

One of the core dilemmas of raising the next generation: 1. We base much of our own sense of self-worth on difficulties we have overcome and our ability to take care of others. 2. We fairly extend that same metric to others and judge others by the difficulties they've overcome and what they do for others. 3. Therefore, the better we are at living up to our own values and improving the lives of the next generation, th…

I think adults forget how much time and opportunities they frittered away. Heaven knows I've done that through my teens, twenties, and even some of my thirties.

Live and learn.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#192

Post by coredog64 »

nixass wrote: post #104
nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

I feel like this is because school, especially college, and particularly exams, is about as high-stakes as most people's lives ever get, so they look back at that time as peak-anxiety. Think about it: you're being evaluated and the result of that evaluation shapes the next step in the pipeline, and ultimately the trajectory of the rest of your life! Well, at least that's what the university officials, professors, you…

Something to consider is that many European countries aggressively track students in conjunction with that free/cheap college. As a consequence, failing during early education can put them onto the vocational track much earlier than you’d see for a U.S. student.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#193

Post by PantaloonFlames »

Jun8 wrote: post #166
nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

I have a son who’s a sophomore (15 yo, second year in HS) and this comment absolutely rings true. He fences competitively (2 HR training four times a week plus a few hrs with physical therapist) and his life pretty much consists of school, homework and sports. He has to be at school at 7:45am so gets up around 6am, goes to bed around 11am usually, so much for the 8 hrs of sleep per night! And he hasn’t even started t…

> around 11am usually

presumably 11pm.

School, homework, and sports. But what is he missing? Are you saying there is zero time for - hanging out with friends - going on outings with the family (skiing or to the movies) - self-directed activities - walking, photography, church groups, getting a job

?

If you're saying there's ZERO time for those things, I find it hard to believe. Weekends there is no school. The days are not consumed with training and homework, I guess.

When I was in HS, my mother strongly encouraged me to engage in competitive sports to keep me away from the neighborhood crew. Most days that meant a 530am alarm clock, 615am in the pool, and after-school workouts too. So more like 3.5 hrs daily. Then a nap before dinner, then homework. Keeping busy with structured activities kept me out of trouble. The control group, my brother, got in lots more trouble than I did.

I had time for friends and self-directed activities, especially off season.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#194

Post by bachmeier »

carabiner wrote: post #90
nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

40% of high school students don't go to college (of any type). Of those, only a tiny portion are focused on elite universities. Many are just going to Long Beach State, University of Redlands and other 4 year schools that you've never heard of. They have lax admissions. Among adult Americans, only a third have bachelors degrees. Certainly the high pressure scholastic environment of certain high schools is not common.

Hate to be that guy[1], but this does not refute the comment you're replying to.

1. There may be more than one important explanation.

2. Your data doesn't provide any information relevant to the evaluation of the hypothesis.

3. Many of the students at non-elite universities, however you define that term, are the ones that were not successful in their quest to go to an elite university. That's why the acceptance rate is so low. Those students would be the most likely to be affected by changes in the competitiveness of college admissions in the wake of the Great Recession, not the ones that were successful.

4. "Certainly the high pressure scholastic environment of certain high schools is not common." This is conjecture. It does not seem plausible that it is "not common".

[1] Not really, but I'm supposed to say that.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#195

Post by rpmisms »

basicallybones wrote: post #172

It is remarkably easy to expose yourself to truly horrifying things on the Internet. Stories, images, and videos of deaths of all kinds, from videos of terrorists cutting off people's heads to people live streaming their suicides to Reddit stories about motorcyclists having limbs ripped off in traffic accidents. News sites, forums, and social feeds are a parade of horrors. You cannot get away from the Internet, even…

Nah, gore is gore, death exists, farm kids have been doing this for years. Kids deal very well with death as long as they understand the concept from an early age.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#196

Post by mouse_ »

jahsome wrote: post #168
mouse_ wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee most of these "high achieving high anxiety types" live with significantly less anxiety than customer service reps/bag handlers/food service workers.

Do you honestly see value in comparing scars? Does that matter in any meaningful way? The worst stress of someone's life is the worst stress of their life. It's unproductive and petty to bicker about who has it worse. If life is stressful for anyone, regardless of status, title, age, etc. there's a good chance it's undeserved. The takeaway is to treat people better, not dismiss their stressors as less significant.

Do you honestly not see how your own narrative could be seen as dismissive to the vast majority of the world? And yes, I do see value in comparing scars, as do most people who do not reside in the high tower. I understand the social rift between you and I is comparable to living on a different planet, and I forgive you for not getting that, but others may not. Please just understand that our current situation is particularly perilous and likely will not last long. I hope you are prepared and able to cope with greater stressors.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#197

Post by tweetle_beetle »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #43
willcipriano wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell someone with an issue with their physical condition that it is because of diet and lack of exercise and many would change habits, tell them it's due to a incurable but perhaps treatable cancer and some will chose suicide. Tell kids that they are unhappy due to choices made in day to day life and they might change those choices, tell them it's due to a incurable but maybe treatable issue with their brain and some…

That's not how this works. Having a reason for why you are struggling so badly is a relief. Your problem now has a name and it's not your fault. Having a name opens up a lot of support and treatment options. This gives you hope that your suffering isn't endless and infinite. You may not be able to be cured, but you can have a much better life.

That is a very optimistic outlook. One person's new relief is another's new label, stigma and anxiety. People experiencing depression-related mental health conditions could lean towards the latter.

In addition, many diagnoses in mental health aren't really tangible or helpful to think about as a layperson, they're just a vague description of a symptom (this applies across a lot of medicine, see IBS, etc.).

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#198

Post by PantaloonFlames »

tasspeed wrote: post #136
waboremo wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also important to note that social media doesn't operate in isolation. We can blame social media all we want, but when we keep preferring candidates in the hiring process who have presentable social media, it's just amplified for teens. Now they have to keep up a grand social media presence, good grades, stay in physical shape, manage their changing family dynamics, get and hold a job, and their own internal sys…

I only avoided suicide because of social media. I had no way to hang out with friends because my parents were always too busy working to take me places so I talked with my online friends to numb the pain.

It's sad that you depended on your parents for transport to your friends. Ideally a teenager would be able to walk or ride a bicycle to hang out with peers. Or take a bus. Did you live in a place where homes were very far apart?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#199

Post by nradov »

e40 wrote: post #119
nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

And the deteriorating job market when they get out. My son has struggled/struggles with this. I 100% understand and I would, too, if I were in his position. I compare his situation to mine and they are night and day. The prevailing sentiment when I was in college: get a degree (in anything) and you'll be OK if you want to work hard.

What deteriorating job market? Despite some recent high profile tech industry layoffs, the US unemployment rate is 3.4%. There are jobs available for those who want to work. They may have to move.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/yellen-you-dont-have-rece...

A recent survey showed that most college students seriously overestimate their earnings potential. There is a mismatch in expectations. Students graduating with low-value degrees need to take whatever job they can get and work their way up.

https://www.realestatewitch.com/college-graduate-salary-2022...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#200

Post by marcusverus »

photochemsyn wrote: post #83

Poverty is correlated with suicide rates, for obvious reasons: https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/poverty-may-have-a-greate... There was a notable increase in poverty rates after the 2008 economic collapse, along with a decrease in home ownership and increased unemployment. https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-current-poverty-rate-un... The fact that this article doesn't even mention this obvious contributing factor…

The increase in poverty was pretty small ([0] https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizat...
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