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“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

seymourhersh.substack.com

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Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#181

Post by partiallypro »

throwbadubadu wrote: post #108
cactusplant7374 wrote: post #59

The Nordstream pipeline was blown up by Russia. They have done this twice before. Russia weaponizes its energy. That has been the pattern. I don't believe America would attack an ally like this and I don't believe Hersh has found the truth. Russia Georgia Energy Crisis (2006) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Russia%E2%80%93Georgia_... Turkmenistan (2009) https://www.rferl.org/a/Pipeline_Explosion_Stokes_Tensions_…

I don't believe Russia is capable to do that the way it was done... and sorry: They are not even capable to be that stupid also (stupid enough, but that would top it by magnitudes).

> They are not even capable to be that stupid

But they were stupid enough to invade Ukraine and think they were going to take it over in 2 weeks?

But the US itself is just so stupid that it would jeopardize the entire NATO alliance which is critical to US global power? Ok.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#183

Post by hef19898 »

thwayunion wrote: post #171
hef19898 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily imagine any of the Baltic states, Poland, Ukraine (with some local help) or even Finland, Swede or Norway doing the deed. Or, since the pipelines are well known and not difficult to reach, basically everyone with access to explosives, a boat a divers with explosives skills. None of which is particularly hard to come by.

At that moment in the war, even Putin had a lot of strong motivations -- lock out the option of bringing Nord Stream back online and close to door on de-escalation. As a side-benefit, the possibility of driving a wedge into NATO. I also found https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34713402 interesting. Who knows.

Well, someone did it. If somebody knows who, they are not telling.

Without sources, everything is specilation at best, consiracy theory BS or propaganda at worst. Personally, I don't even believe half of what is reported with connection to the war in Ukraine.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#184

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

Haunted_Cabbage wrote: post #168
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to keep in mind is that counter assertions have been made without evidence. > Asked for comment, Adrienne Watson, a White House spokesperson, said in an email, “This is false and complete fiction.” Tammy Thorp, a spokesperson for the Central Intelligence Agency, similarly wrote: “This claim is completely and utterly false.” "This is ... complete fiction." is a claim that the story was fabricated. I think it…

>One thing to keep in mind is that counter assertions have been made without evidence. Are you familiar with Christopher Hitchens? That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. Until the author provides evidence of their claims, there's nothing required to dismiss them.

Maybe it's because I see a distinction between "dismiss" and "deny". Where someone might dismiss ("There is no evidence to back up these claims") there are instead denials ("They made this up"). Anyway, I don't mean to change your mind, just to provide a different perspective.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#185

Post by pphysch »

partiallypro wrote: post #153
pphysch wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Questioning the narratives around the ongoing Syrian Dirty War is not a "crazy conspiracy theory".

That's not the only crazy conspiracy theory he has claimed in the past 10-20 years.

Go on. Link some examples.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#186

Post by dang »

davesque wrote: post #110
dang wrote: post #34

All: Whether he is right or not or one likes him or not, Hersh reporting on this counts as significant new information ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... ), so I've turned off the flags on this submission. If you're going to comment in this thread, please make sure you're up on the site guidlelines ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ) and note this one: " Comments should…

I'm honestly really shocked by your stance on this. Regardless of whether or not this information is credible, this seems like text book flame war kindling. In the past, I've thought HN's policy of "you can discuss things like this in other forums" was wise and I've been corrected by it myself many times. Why wouldn't that apply in this case?

Because it's interesting. Hersh reporting on it is an interesting story in its own right. Is what he says true? I have no idea. We don't have a truth meter here.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#187

Post by twblalock »

PonySoldier wrote: post #179
twblalock wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone else had written this, would it be significant? Wouldn't it just be written off as a conspiracy theory that provides little to no evidence for its claims? If the only thing that gets this on HN is Seymour Hersh's reputation (which has lately become somewhat questionable) then you might want to reconsider. Plus, the quality of the comments has not been very good so far.

This gatekeeping is ridiculous. This is the same guy who unveiled the atrocities that occured during the My Lai massacre and at Abu Ghraib, both of which painted the US Gov/military in a terrible light. This is an actual case of speaking truth to power. He clearly (and rightfully IMO) does not trust the US government and his "somewhat questionable" and recent work has continued that trend. Is it any surprise that the…

That’s not good enough.

No level of reputation or historical track record should exempt anyone from the basic responsibility of providing evidence for claims they make.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#188

Post by thwayunion »

hef19898 wrote: post #183
thwayunion wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that moment in the war, even Putin had a lot of strong motivations -- lock out the option of bringing Nord Stream back online and close to door on de-escalation. As a side-benefit, the possibility of driving a wedge into NATO. I also found https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34713402 interesting. Who knows.

Well, someone did it. If somebody knows who, they are not telling. Without sources, everything is specilation at best, consiracy theory BS or propaganda at worst. Personally, I don't even believe half of what is reported with connection to the war in Ukraine.

Agreed. One of those situations where everyone wants to blame everyone else for a "terrible" thing that happened, but at the same time don't really GAF because all sides were okay with finalizing a clean break between Europe and Russia for a variety of domestic and IR reasons anyways.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#189

Post by steponlego »

VincentEvans wrote: post #176

Gazprom, Russian gas monopoly, has on Kremlin’s orders first threatened to, and then suspended gas supplies to Europe in an attempt to blackmail it to stop supporting Ukraine under a threat of, as they put it, “freezing Europe”. In the process unilaterally breaking existing delivery contracts. There were no Western sanctions targeting Russian gas - it was entirely a political operation initiated by Russian government…

Why don't we just properly view the gas reductions for what they are - a form of sanctioning?

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#190

Post by swader999 »

dang wrote: post #34

All: Whether he is right or not or one likes him or not, Hersh reporting on this counts as significant new information ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... ), so I've turned off the flags on this submission. If you're going to comment in this thread, please make sure you're up on the site guidlelines ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ) and note this one: " Comments should…

Why even question Hersh on this when Biden publicly admitted they would put an end to it? https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8
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