Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's the civil rights movement in reverse. Is it? Here's what MLK has written: > “Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic.” > “A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of…
One crucial detail to note with the research showing diversity improves company performance: Asians were categorized as diverse in these studies. But in all the DEI initiatives I've seen, Asians were either non-diverse and in some they were "negative diversity" and treated even worse than whites. So there's a mismatched between the definitions of diversity used in research and used in DEI discrimination.
Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring
371–380 of 407 posts
Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
>All these book decisions are for "political reasons," and they all have everything to do with the education of children. Should be easy to show us some major examples on the left then. I can't think of a single governor moving the way Abbott and DeSantis are.
> Should be easy to show us some major examples on the left then. I can't think of a single governor moving the way Abbott and DeSantis are. It is. How many books that are anathema to the left do you think you'd find in a school library (e.g. something skeptical about transgenderism)? If you look at library weeding criteria, you'll typically find language about removing books that are now politically incorrect (thoug…
> It is.
I notice you didn't actually supply a major example. Instead what you did was come up with a hypothetical that matched your rhetoric. Obviously that's easy for you, but you still didn't actually supply a major example. Usually an example would come from the real world and include a citation. Can you take another stab at it?
Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So why play the kabuki game at all if it's all so pointless. That's academia. I'm really, really serious. You also submit, as a 20-something who has only ever been a student: 1. a multi-page research statement summarizing a five year research agenda, 2. a multi-page teaching statement (in some cases the candidate has literally just been a grader for one course and stretches that out for 2.5 pages), 3. three letters…
>Faculty hiring is straight up insane, and DEI/Faith statements don't even make the top 10 list of reasons why. The idea that because there are other issues with hiring in Academia that these "Faith Statements" don't matter rings pretty hollow imo. >By institution count, CA's public system is a teeny tiny fraction of the US's 4000+ colleges and universities. But I get it. For a certain mark, California gets the corti…
I'm wondering if you're willing to tell us how many faculty DEI statements you've actually read. I'm very sure that if we forced the posters here to disclose the same, the median across this thread would be 0 or 1 (that one being the first hit that could be found searching Google).
Personally I've read dozens upon dozens in my role as an educator, and thwayunion has been spot on in their assessment. As for this:
> given we can see countless examples of DEI gone wild at the Ivies or Stanford or Wellesley
There's always going to be examples of things going wrong in a chaotic and distributed process. Pointing them out doesn't prove much. That said, a lot of the "gone wild" examples that people can bring up are also based in the same ignorance as people complaining about DEI statement who haven't read a single DEI statement. The recent Stanford word list that you probably have in mind is just one example; in that case, the freakout was over some overzealous members of an IT department publishing their internal content guidelines. It was probably misguided, but the ensuing freakout on the internet was overblown and rooted in a deep ignorance at how organizations like Universities operate.
So as far as this conversation goes, thwayunion's perception is properly calibrated. It seems to come from experience.
Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are about 130 thousand people 6' 6" or taller in the US: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585718168419c246cf6f2... Which is coincidentally the average height of NBA players (meaning almost half of them are below this height). There are a maximum of about 600 NBA players at any given time, so a little more than 300 at 6' 6" or above. Having good height genetics means you have a 0.25% chance of being an NBA…
I was wrong. The US CDC has data for height by percentile and race. Black americans are not taller than white americans - you are absolutely correct. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_211.pdf See figure 8. However - and this is a major issue - the outliers aren't captured in averages. I read a book called Taboo by John Entine that went into this exact issue. The issue is that the outliers are what deter…
Do certain traits tend to be more prevalent within certain broad genetic backgrounds? Sure. But for any given individual, or even family, this tells you nothing. And unfortunately, when people start to use these broad genetic backgrounds for prediction, you end up with cultural filtering whether you wanted it or not. The measuring stick becomes the goal in some way.
Let people be people. Let them find their own path through trial and error, unless they actually come looking for advice. Let them know if they're genuinely not a competitor after they have tried, but give them the genuine chance (a rare few will overcome even this).
Within the last couple of hundred years we've finally developed societies in which people don't have to follow in their parents footsteps, but can find their own vocations. I don't want to lose this because of some eugenics inclination and racial stereotypes.
:D Sumo wrestler football goalies FTW. :D
Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
>If something different were true (e.g. conservative Christians were quite over-represented in the librarian profession), I'm absolutely sure you'd see political responses from liberal government authorities. This is demonstrably not true by the fact that this is happening more against topics conservatives find distasteful or offensive (such as LGBT works), as per your own article. Look at that map and the subjects b…
> This is conjecture. So? Is it unreasonable? Do you really think you'd see a rousing fight from the left to defend books that discouraged or condemned gender transitions? Or would you see outrage and calls that "something must be done!" to protect kids from those ideas? Even the ACLU is backing off from defending people and ideas that offend their liberal supporters. And the rest isn't conjecture.
Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
What was the poster’s meaning, then? Sorry, I genuinely do not understand what you are getting at here.
I always assume a reply like this is generated by an ai, because a real human would have tried to make himself understood if he's going to bother saying things
Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I see someone argue from first-hand experience that this is all no big deal, I feel fairly confident predicting that their politics are more or less aligned with present-day progressivism. And within that context, I can believe that it's no big deal to merely repeat the progressive world view that the interviewers want to hear at that moment. What would change my view on this is to hear someone who has reasonabl…
> What would change my view on this is to hear someone who has reasonably strong disagreement with present-day progressive stances on education, and nevertheless felt comfortable stating their true beliefs in a DEI statement and was still hired. Once again, the purpose of a DEI statement is not to articulate how much you agree (or disagree) with progressive ideology. Doing either will sink your application. The point…
You have just told me that putting pronouns in one's signature is effectively a condition of employment, because it "makes things easier for everyone" if people comply with this policy. That is a remarkable statement.
Consider how asymmetric these affordances are. On one hand it is considered a top priority that trans students are not only accommodated in their desired pronouns, but that everybody participates in a shared pronoun protocol on an ongoing basis to make trans students feel more welcome. On the other hand the community cannot tolerate a faculty member who prefers not to put pronouns next to their name; it is so intolerant of this behavior that the institution will not even hire such a person, let alone attempt to make them feel welcomed or accepted.
It is right and admirable to expect faculty to treat students with respect, including using requested pronouns within reason. But why should a faculty member be expected to put pronouns next to their own name if they prefer not to? The choice of how to identify is a very personal thing; that is the entire reason why this topic is so charged. What if someone strongly does not identify with putting pronouns in every place their name appears? Shouldn't they get a chance to decide how they identify?
It is not the accommodation of student requests that makes this political, it is the highly asymmetric offering of affordances. You are describing a culture where some people's choice of how to identify is protected as sacrosanct, but other people's choice is rejected as unacceptable and disqualifying. That is picking winners and losers on a charged topic where both sides have strong and closely held beliefs.
Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, that was one of the examples I had in mind. Yet you see folks in her dismiss any arguments against DEI as boogeyman of right-wing pundits.
> Yet you see folks in her dismiss any arguments against DEI as boogeyman of right-wing pundits. I don't know how "right-wing" became a slur, but it's unhealthy for people to hold their opposition with such low regard. Progressive politics (typically left-leaning) is the idea of making "progress" (read: change), so most issues raised if not implemented or occurring already, will occur in the near future. Conservative…
They're not conflated. They are stances held by large swatch of US conservatives.
Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sorry, I should have been more clear. Desantis is banning books for political reasons that have nothing to do with the education of children. Sorry, no. That's just "when I do it, it's good; but when they do it, it's evil." All these book decisions are for "political reasons," and they all have everything to do with the education of children.
>All these book decisions are for "political reasons," and they all have everything to do with the education of children. Should be easy to show us some major examples on the left then. I can't think of a single governor moving the way Abbott and DeSantis are.
* Gov. Newsom banned remedial classes being taught at community colleges.
* Conversion Therapy has been banned and attempted to be banned by many states in particular in public schools.
* Bibles being banned by school districts.
This isn't a defense of Ron Desantis or any of those things. I'm not convinced Ron Desantis is the only governor that would ban books. If it's politically expedient to ban content, that's what happens in a democracy. I am not in favor of book bans but I very much doubt the defense of principles. The same people complaining about book bans would absolutely ban books if objectionable political content were being pushed on children from the other direction. Or alternatively what is the principled defense of things like the Dept. of Ed. promoting the discredited 1619 Project?
Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What would change my view on this is to hear someone who has reasonably strong disagreement with present-day progressive stances on education, and nevertheless felt comfortable stating their true beliefs in a DEI statement and was still hired. Once again, the purpose of a DEI statement is not to articulate how much you agree (or disagree) with progressive ideology. Doing either will sink your application. The point…
> Some applicants will make some big deal about pronouns not being necessary, and we will have to reject that application because we all have our pronouns in our signatures. Not for political reasons, but because we have many trans students, and it makes things easier for everyone when pronouns are used upfront You have just told me that putting pronouns in one's signature is effectively a condition of employment, be…
I'm probably speaking out of turn here because I went back and checked, and some faculty don't have this in their signature. So it's optional after all. Even still, leadership has asked us to put our pronouns in our signatures, so my perception was that it wasn't optional.
> Consider how asymmetric these affordances are.
I would soften both sides of your argument. On the one hand, it is considered a priority that to accommodate all students. Normalizing pronoun usage isn't a huge ask for anyone, dissenters are apparently accommodated, and trans customers (I'll refer to them as customers here to highlight that these accommodations are in fact made in the context of a transaction where large sums of money are exchanged) feel more visible and welcomed.
On the other hand, while the employer can apparently tolerate an employee who prefers not to put pronouns next to their name, it aspires not to hire people who outwardly express their political opinions about our paying customers during working hours, or in a way that would negatively impact revenues. This is the prerogative of all businesses. I'm using the employer/employee dichotomy to highlight the fact that this is in fact a job, where the expectation is that the employee will leave their politics aside.
So yes, the affordances are asymmetric, because the relationship between these groups and the institution is not the same. One is a paying customer, the other is an employee. Customer concerns are treated as a priority because education is a person-centric business. It's all about personal service to the customer. If a school gets known for a bad customer experience, that impacts enrollment which drives down revenues.
Conversely employee concerns are brought to HR and handled through internal channels. Otherwise employees abide by the institution's rules and procedures and are compensated with a salary and benefits.
I'm sorry if that offends your political sensibilities or strong and closely held beliefs, but they should be kept closely held in the context of your employment. The personhood of our customers is not debatable, because at the end of the day they are paying a large sum of money to attend our institution, and there's a lot of heavy competition out there. If that's picking winners and losers so be it. They're voting with their wallets so that's why they're winning.