Live data from Hacker News

The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

51–60 of 565 posts

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#51
Anecdotally, I was (as probably many here were) ahead of the curve in digital devices usage when I started hanging out in IRC and various web forums as a teenager in early 2000s. At some point I noticed that just using computers induced some amount of anxiety compared to "old tech"; whenever there was some period of time when I used my computer less (like christmas, vacations, etc.) and joined back to the "world of the normal people", I felt much calmer and happier. Even though I noticed this, it was difficult to log off during normal times since most of my life was in the internet.

Now everyone is using digital devices all the time and the "normal people world" has ceased to exist. Also almost everyone is anxious and/or depressed. I think this is not a coincidence. However, I do not think that this is due to social media per se, but using digital devices for anything (social media being just the reason why most people use them).

My theory is that just using digital devices for anything is somewhat stressful; you have to keep the eyes focused all the time (Can you think of other activities that require this? There aren't many and they are all somewhat stressful), you have to navigate all the various applications and menus, you have to occasionally solve minor problems that you run into when using the devices, etc.

Using digital devices is the same for your brain as heavy, repetitive physical labour is to your body; in small amounts it might even be healthy, but several hours every day is going to destroy your body/mind.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#52
post #11

Having exited my teen years just before the smartphones became ubiquitous in the US, I got the opportunity to watch externally how social media and other similar systems effected the day-to-day of my younger siblings through their teen years. It was not positive. Maybe someone younger can attest to my observations: - more localized isolation as kids spent a higher % of their attention in internet communities - less c…

> less cultural cohesion due to hyper diversity in memes resulting in fewer shared experiences People being different is bad?

It's not. But people also need some kind of shared meaning and a sense of belonging as well.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#53

While I don't doubt that social media can have a negative impact on teens... my own experience as the parent of a teen is slightly different and doesn't point to social media as being a driver. At least in my case. I have a teenager that struggles with anxiety, low self-esteem and depression. He's incredibly smart and is an honors student in high school. BUT he also thinks he's terrible and he's incapable of acceptin…

Consuming is the worst. The Internet is a toxic cesspool, for the most part. Having an account and interacting with friends would be one of the few exceptions, and maybe learning some stuff now and then.

Yea. I agree there is a lot of bad things to consume.

In general what he consumes tends to lean towards the toxic end of things. A lot of learning, science and educational content. And then gaming-related content (Minecraft, etc.).

Obviously, some of the gaming content can get toxic. But he's always been pretty good about staying away from more toxic gaming content. And while he will watching gaming content on Youtube he's not really into watching live streamers (on Youtube or Twitch) which is where a lot of toxicity can be on full display (both on the stream and in the chat).

So overall the majority of what he consumes tends to not be swimming around in the toxic cesspool end of things.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#54
post #11

Having exited my teen years just before the smartphones became ubiquitous in the US, I got the opportunity to watch externally how social media and other similar systems effected the day-to-day of my younger siblings through their teen years. It was not positive. Maybe someone younger can attest to my observations: - more localized isolation as kids spent a higher % of their attention in internet communities - less c…

> less cultural cohesion due to hyper diversity in memes resulting in fewer shared experiences People being different is bad?

Teenagers having the idea reinforced through social media that being different is bad, is bad. Left to their own devices, that is the default social order that children create.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#55

Smartphones + Social Media

This should be incredibly obvious, especially to adults who've realised (particularly during the pandemic) the effect that social media use can have on themselves.

Smartphones should be banned from schools entirely, and parents should be much more careful about keeping track of what their kids are up to online.

(But it's probably too late, we've got a generation of young teachers who've grown up hooked on this technology, and who see the world through the distorting lens of social media)

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consuming is the worst. The Internet is a toxic cesspool, for the most part. Having an account and interacting with friends would be one of the few exceptions, and maybe learning some stuff now and then.

Yea. I agree there is a lot of bad things to consume. In general what he consumes tends to lean towards the toxic end of things. A lot of learning, science and educational content. And then gaming-related content (Minecraft, etc.). Obviously, some of the gaming content can get toxic. But he's always been pretty good about staying away from more toxic gaming content. And while he will watching gaming content on Youtub…

[deleted]

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#57
post #11

Having exited my teen years just before the smartphones became ubiquitous in the US, I got the opportunity to watch externally how social media and other similar systems effected the day-to-day of my younger siblings through their teen years. It was not positive. Maybe someone younger can attest to my observations: - more localized isolation as kids spent a higher % of their attention in internet communities - less c…

An additional one I noticed with my female cousins was that a lot of fun was sucked out of high school girls' social expression/reconnaissance. On the recon side, gossiping is a fun bonding activity, but scrolling through snaps/reels is relative drudgery. On the performance side, "be pretty and vivacious at fun social events" is no longer sufficient without obsessively managing your profile's brand. This doesn't only…

We have distributed the spectacle. Now each of us is responsible for projecting our chosen subliminal intent.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell someone with an issue with their physical condition that it is because of diet and lack of exercise and many would change habits, tell them it's due to a incurable but perhaps treatable cancer and some will chose suicide. Tell kids that they are unhappy due to choices made in day to day life and they might change those choices, tell them it's due to a incurable but maybe treatable issue with their brain and some…

Not at all, it's exactly the opposite. People feel understood and very relieved when they are diagnosed mental illness. Accepting and managing some condition give people hope.

To respond I need to separate mental illness into three categories.

The first category contains illnesses like schizophrenia, with schizophrenia you can induce symptoms of the illness in healthy people by giving them medicine used to treat parkinsons. We can point to specific structures and chemical reactions in the brain as a cause for the illness, it may not be perfectly understood but we have a good understanding of what is going on.

The second contains things like personality disorders. It's not clear these are actually related to physical defects, at least in the same way the first category is. For example people who meet diagnostic criteria for antisocial personality disorder often report no symptoms and are successful in day to day life, some even thrive. Borderline personality types are often distraught over the state of interpersonal reletionships, that is the primary source of their suffering, however they behave in ways that destroy those reletionships. These behaviors aren't accidental, they involve sophisticated thinking, borderlines spin complex webs of lies to justify and hide these behaviors.

The third are things that are normal human suffering. Most people feel anxiety for a big date or a job interview. Most people feel sad when they lose a loved one. Negative emotions are a part of life. It's hard to draw a line on what is normal but a nonzero number of people are medicated for having normal human emotions.

It may not be helpful for the second and third category to be enabled in the way they have been.

For the second group, as the root of their strife is generally interpersonal, and only changing day to day behavior, over a lengthy period of time will have any effect in alevating the true symptoms of the illness. We can pretend the problem "isn't their fault" but essentially all their issues can be tied directly to their own behavior, it may not be their fault but it's certainly their problem.

For the third it isn't clear that they need to be treated at all, if you are too sad to go to work because your son died a month ago, nothing is wrong with you. Perhaps people are sad in society in general because the society in general sucks, medicating them in mass lowers the collective motivation to fix the society, what's the end game there?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#59

Social media is global, so any effects it has should be visible globally. > Teenage suicides rates have, on average, declined slightly over the past two decades or so. While in 1990 there were, on average across the OECD, 8.5 suicides per 100 000 teenagers (15-19), by 2015 this rate had fallen to 7.4. Much of this decline occurred during the 2000s. Between 1990 and 1999 the OECD average teenage suicide remained fairl…

Social media isn't totally global, though -- I would be interested to see this youth mental health data correlated with smartphone uptake in a given country.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#60

Social media is global, so any effects it has should be visible globally. > Teenage suicides rates have, on average, declined slightly over the past two decades or so. While in 1990 there were, on average across the OECD, 8.5 suicides per 100 000 teenagers (15-19), by 2015 this rate had fallen to 7.4. Much of this decline occurred during the 2000s. Between 1990 and 1999 the OECD average teenage suicide remained fairl…

>Social media is global, so any effects it has should be visible globally.

I don't disagree, but that conversation also needs to include data around how frequently teens in different countries use social media/smartphones. Without that data, the data you cite about global teenage suicide rates is sorta worthless.

Post reply on HN