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Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

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Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#181
post #75
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2 years later the Bold was released and everyone realized it's just a hastily designed iPhone clone. That marks the end of BB's dominance. I feel like Google is going to bleed credibility for every month that they don't have a lamda/llm enabled search integrated into the home page. You can talk all you want about the foundational models and how advanced they are, but the search product itself will require a ton of…

> Google is going to bleed credibility for every month that they don't have a lamda/llm enabled search integrated into the home page. I don't know that end-users really care about having a GPT-written paragraph accompanying their search results. Is there some other kind of output AI search currently provides that I'm missing?

I don't know that end-users really care about having a GPT-written paragraph accompanying their search results.

For 90% of my searches I don't want any search results. I want a definitive, authoritative answer to a question. In the olden days of the web I had to figure out what to search to give me a website that would give me that answer as the first result, and in the mid-90s that was really hard because search was bad. In the late 90s when Google launched it got much easier, especially for things where there was a network of websites about a thing that all pointed to a canonical authority. PageRank found that authority source. Life was good.

Over the next 20 years the war between Google and SEO spammers meant finding things got a bit harder. Along with that Google's proliferation of adverts on their search result pages meant it actually became harder to even find the website link I wanted in the page itself. Fortunately Google also started putting knowledge graph things in the results and the sidebar which made life less painful.

I think we're due another shake-up, and Bing-GPT might be it. If they show me a simple paragraph of readable text that explains the answer to what I've searched for then that would improve most of my searches. It'd be like Google's knowledge graph box but for everything.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#182
post #79
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is going to bleed credibility for every month that they don't have a lamda/llm enabled search integrated into the home page. I don't know that end-users really care about having a GPT-written paragraph accompanying their search results. Is there some other kind of output AI search currently provides that I'm missing?

I use ChatGPT precisely because I don't want to sift trhough search result links

My experience with chatgpt is that it is essentially a misinformation generator. It manages to bullshit with incredible confidence.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I think the contrary is true. Google works well because of the "search signal", how accurately Google knows what you're wanting to buy, essentially. ChatGPT style conversations would give Google a much better idea of exactly what you want to buy. It must be possible to use this signal to sell more ads, not just match what they currently have. Essentially, make sure ChatGPT gets asked the same question Googl…

Exactly, I made the same point before. Google's ads will become more effective AND people will spend more time on Google's properties. This narrative that Google will lose out because people won't view ads never made any sense and it's been repeated like a gospel. Of course Google still dropped the ball by taking way too much time to put their LLMs into use.

[dead]

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#184
post #91

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npV4Kix7Td0 If this was a startup, they would be dead in the water. Nothing of substance, awful sound, 9:45 mins in they don't have a key piece of live demo equipment (the phone)/ As someone else said, it's like they asked a couple of interns to rush something out in 24 hours. No wonder the stock price is tanking. Awful display from Google.

Maybe the people who were supposed to be running the event got laid off xD

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like Google is going to bleed credibility for every month that they don't have a lamda/llm enabled search integrated into the home page. You can talk all you want about the foundational models and how advanced they are, but the search product itself will require a ton of fine-tuning on real-world training data that they aren't collecting yet. I love ChatGPT as a source of inspiration, but I don't think I'd w…

Google already has an issue with accuracy - the snippets they choose are often not very correct.

Yes but I think they're correct a lot more often than ChatGPT. And they give the source!

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#186
I wonder if Google is going to be as successful as Intel selling their "turn around" story when their monopoly was threatened by AMD. Intel managed to make media run with it even though it was based on nothing and turned out to be nothing.

It might not be as simple this time as people don't understand CPUs well but everyone can see that ChatGPT is something new and special while Google search is deteriorating every year.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#187
> This suggests to me that Google is finally getting disrupted and are scrambling of desperation because of the release of ChatGPT.

Even if Google is not getting disrupted, this suggested that Google is finally at the stage where its culture is hindering its progress and causing subpar performance. I hope I'm wrong, though. Google is such an admirable company. Its search engine has forever changed the world. The launch of Gmail with its 1GB inbox was a game-changer that shocked competitors, and Yahoo! played catch-up for over two years. Google Maps revolutionized the world of electronic maps and started a movement frontend development, as Google showed the world its amazing application of AJAX. Chrome dethroned Internet Explorer and Firefox to become a dominant browser, and the company's three seminal systems papers (GFS, MapReduce, and BigTable) spawned a multi-billion-dollar industry. Additionally, Google's advances in machine learning just keeps pushing the industry forward. The list can go on...

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#188
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is going to bleed credibility for every month that they don't have a lamda/llm enabled search integrated into the home page. I don't know that end-users really care about having a GPT-written paragraph accompanying their search results. Is there some other kind of output AI search currently provides that I'm missing?

I don't know that end-users really care about having a GPT-written paragraph accompanying their search results. For 90% of my searches I don't want any search results. I want a definitive, authoritative answer to a question. In the olden days of the web I had to figure out what to search to give me a website that would give me that answer as the first result, and in the mid-90s that was really hard because search was…

> For 90% of my searches I don't want any search results. I want a definitive, authoritative answer to a question.

Which, of course, is what Bing just announced. Whether it will be the right answer remains to be seen.

Notice that there's a price increase, of sorts, for this at Bing. To get on the "waiting list" you have to sign up with Bing and agree to receive marketing information. Will public access to large language model search come with a decrease in privacy? It did for Siri and Alexa, which learn about you and cannot be used anonymously.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. What I would note is that Palm, like 7 months later, had the first real competition but Sprint just screwed them. Android took until the Droid to be competitive and the Nexus One/Galaxy S to be actually convincing as an alternative.

This isn't true at all. The G1 (first widely marketed android phone) was superior in all ways but one: Marketing. The iPhone wasn't really competitive on the hardware front until the 3g which finally added GPS and a fast cellular modem.

The iPhone 3G was released before the G1, and period reviews especially noted how the G1 didn't measure up. In general, if something non-free is wildly successful the explanation is more than “marketing” and that certainly sounds like it's the case:

> The HTC hardware and Android OS that powers it lack the polish and depth of even the iPhone 1.0 in most respects.

> My first-generation iPhone with iPhone OS 2.1 feels faster and slicker than this late 2008 G1.

> The G1 has a single-finger touchscreen that supports a few gestures, like sliding. After working with an iPhone for many months, the lack of multitouch stands out as a big loss, but those new to touchscreens are unlikely to find it a big deal. A more critical problem, however, is the lack of sensitivity in the touchscreen.

> The browsing experience is frustrating and awkward, and I expected far better. With the WebKit browser core being used by both Nokia and Apple, and Google immersed in its own Chrome project, I thought the G1 might include a browser that had something unique to offer. Instead, it plays like something from about 2006.

(from https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/10/android-g1-review/)

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#190

> This suggests to me that Google is finally getting disrupted and are scrambling of desperation because of the release of ChatGPT. Even if Google is not getting disrupted, this suggested that Google is finally at the stage where its culture is hindering its progress and causing subpar performance. I hope I'm wrong, though. Google is such an admirable company. Its search engine has forever changed the world. The laun…

All that to create a privacy destroying, massively fraudulent ad tech moat. Yeah, admirable...
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