Does Mozilla still work on modern browsers anymore? Or do they just update the ui of their aging one and write long winded papers with fancy stats about how many average users know how to install chrome.
Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)
281–290 of 349 posts
Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also would want a source for that. At least in the mobile dev space, it has always been common practice for them to leverage private APIs to do things regular app devs cant.
> At least in the mobile dev space, it has always been common practice for them to leverage private APIs to do things regular app devs cant. On mobile (iOS), yes. But power consumption comparisons tend to be on desktop (macOS) because the other browsers can't run on iOS at all. And I don't think Apple can enforce that API privacy on macOS because they unlike iOS they allow apps to be installed from outside the App St…
https://mjtsai.com/blog/2022/10/10/improving-firefox-respons...
Firefox has constantly been sussing out private APIs that Safari uses to improve battery life on macOS.
Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)
#283> User extensions are essential and how browser [makers] are holding them back.
Indeed Mozilla! Drop your DRM on them. Allow them on mobile.
Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody is stuck in the ecosystem. You can change the platform at any time. And for me, I feel having more choice on iPhone compared to Android. With android I would need to limit the apps that I install because of potential security flaws. iOS wins all the security rankings (e.g. https://nordvpn.com/blog/ios-vs-android-security/ ), and it’s closely related to its lockin model.
You can change phone platforms at any time you want, by buying a new phone for somewhere in the range of $500-$1000 US? And then doing what with the old phone? Selling it?
iPhones retain their value extremely well, so yeah, sell it.
Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
For the average of users they don't really mind if they're using WebKit or whatever stack underneath. My family just wants to open Safari and browse, and they don't give a shit about any of Apple's business.
>For the average of users they don't really mind That's usually because they never used or even know the existence of something better. Same thing was being said 15 years ago for IE. The average user was fine with it until they tried Chrome (or Firefox/Opera before).
Other than being a professional programmer, which I keep pretty compartmentalized from the rest of my life, I think I'm a pretty average computer and web user.
I certainly know other browsers exist and I have even used them. I still don't care I just use what comes installed on the machine because like I said I don't care.
Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it really a feature to not be allowed to use non-webkit Chrome on my iPhone, even if it might unlock superior features? Is it a feature that Google Fi can't work optimally on iPhone thanks to their anti-competitive restrictions? Is it a feature that I have to use Siri, which is way inferior to Google Assistant, when communicating in CarPlay? Is the planned obsolescence a feature too? My 12 year old Mac laptop is d…
> My 12 year old Mac laptop is dead because MacOS does not allow me to upgrade past a certain version, and the cryptography primitives do not update past that so no recent browsers support the platform What version of macOS are you stuck on? It can’t even run Sierra? https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/109.0.1/system-require... The bigger issue for me is increasing requirements. My 2012 MacBook Air went to absolute…
It was either snow leopard or lion. Chrome and Firefox would install but be unable to visit https websites because of missing crypto things it needed. It was surprising to me too.
Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
For the average of users they don't really mind if they're using WebKit or whatever stack underneath. My family just wants to open Safari and browse, and they don't give a shit about any of Apple's business.
Right. They only care when it starts being noticeably slow/laggy, or causing other problems, or if a button/menu item they often use has changed positions or removed altogether. "I've been clicking this spot for years and it always works, now its completely unusable!".
Take for example the iMessage feature that lets you see message timestamps. There are no visual affordances to indicate how to do it. My parents couldn’t figure it out (pull the messages left!) it’s about the same as not having the feature. Wanna install an alternate sms app? Good luck, apple won’t let you because this isn’t android.
So sure, people won’t complain — they just accept that this is life, but life could be better if apple didn’t have monopolistic behaviors.
Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
>For the average of users they don't really mind That's usually because they never used or even know the existence of something better. Same thing was being said 15 years ago for IE. The average user was fine with it until they tried Chrome (or Firefox/Opera before).
Other than being a professional programmer, which I keep pretty compartmentalized from the rest of my life, I think I'm a pretty average computer and web user. I certainly know other browsers exist and I have even used them. I still don't care I just use what comes installed on the machine because like I said I don't care .
Hm even my non tech classmates in college knew the difference between chrome and safari. They care about speed and features they get used to (e.g. chrome password manager follows you to your phone, syncs history across devices). To be an absolute non user of such features to the point of not caring is not what I’d consider typical.
Could it be an age cohort thing?
Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
Other than being a professional programmer, which I keep pretty compartmentalized from the rest of my life, I think I'm a pretty average computer and web user. I certainly know other browsers exist and I have even used them. I still don't care I just use what comes installed on the machine because like I said I don't care .
Hm even my non tech classmates in college knew the difference between chrome and safari. They care about speed and features they get used to (e.g. chrome password manager follows you to your phone, syncs history across devices). To be an absolute non user of such features to the point of not caring is not what I’d consider typical. Could it be an age cohort thing?
Where did you get the idea that I don't use the features?
I'm not interested in evaluating or comparing the features, but I'll use them if they suit my needs.
Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
The browser turning into an operating system (or rather a separate meta-platform that provides a common wrapper over operating system services) has already happened a long time ago. And while many web APIs indeed 'suck', they're still roughly in the same ballpark as traditional OS APIs when it comes to legacy features, unfixable design warts and general 'pain of use' (e.g. it's not like native development is all rain…
The opposing opinion would be that changes of vital OS features has happened to all the operating systems. Users expect a new version of software to run on newer operating systems. The web has never deprecated anything close to vital. We're stuck, seemingly, with everything ever conceived.
Firefox has deprecated support for FTP, RSS feeds. Web extensions using manifest version 2 are being deprecated in Chrome, removing substantial capabilities. Whether these features are "close to vital" is debatable but certainly some functionality that used to be ubiquitous are being removed.