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Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

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Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#81

Post by tootie »

pen2l wrote: post #46
flyingfences wrote: post #3

There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…

In addition to this, I think we should go back to doing things the hard way, the old-school way: adapt and adjust your lifestyle to temperature changes like our ancestors did. Let the temperature dictate your cooking: do the dishes that require oven use, that require you to have 3 stoves on at the same time (and crucially, avoid these dishes in the summer!). Go on a bulk in the winter time so that you are more resili…

Yeah it's true. I was just joking that our air fryer doubles as a space heater.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#82

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

hedora wrote: post #55

What a fitting anti-electrification PR campaign for the 120th anniversary of Edison intentionally (allegedly, and perhaps fraudulently) electrocuting a homicidal elephant to teach us of the dangers of alternating current! https://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/science-questio... Anyway kids, remember, every time your heat pump spins up, Dumbo’s mom dies. Now, drink up the fuel oil the nice man in the red suit d…

Edison was advocating Direct Current, not fuel oil?

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#83

Post by nicoburns »

hammock wrote: post #60
pen2l wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to this, I think we should go back to doing things the hard way, the old-school way: adapt and adjust your lifestyle to temperature changes like our ancestors did. Let the temperature dictate your cooking: do the dishes that require oven use, that require you to have 3 stoves on at the same time (and crucially, avoid these dishes in the summer!). Go on a bulk in the winter time so that you are more resili…

Your ideas are good for today, however I question how accurate they are for "our ancestors." Most people in e.g. the colonial days didn't have an oven - they went to the town baker to use theirs when needed. They also didn't have three stoves and all the pots and utensils required to use them simultaneously

They might not have had an oven, but they certainly had a fire of some kind.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#84

Post by jakedata »

Heat pump electrical usage does not go up as the temperature drops. In fact the actual heat pump itself uses less electricity because the compressor needs to slow down in order to scavenge the outdoor heat needed to vaporize the refrigerant.

What causes a spike in electrical usage is the backup resistive heat source that kicks in when the compressor cannot satisfy the demand for heat.

Installing a heat pump that is engineered and properly sized for extreme cold will prevent this issue. My heat pump does not have a backup resistive heater and I can watch the compressor cycle in realtime on my Sense Home Energy Monitor. The pattern is quite obvious once you understand what you are looking at.

-edit- power consumption tracks the heat load in normal temp ranges, I am referring to the backup heat source turning on during extreme cold.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#85

Post by thehappypm »

adql wrote: post #53
flyingfences wrote: post #3

There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…

Don't they just start working essentially as effective resistive heater below some temperature ? So theoretically just oversizing it a bit should've been enough for the once in 10 years cold snap event. Woodstove with some supplies probably cheaper than oversizing tho

No, at some point they’re worse than resistive.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#86

Post by scythe »

londons_explore wrote: post #7
flyingfences wrote: post #3

There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…

For 'enthusiasts', a dual heat source system is a good plan. But regular folk want to just pay the energy bill and have a warm home, whatever the weather outside. They don't care to worry about lighting the wood stove on super cold days. They don't want to have to have a wood delivery separate from their energy bill, and be carting it around in boxes. They don't want to huddle into the room with the wood stove becaus…

If your heat distribution is hydronic, I don't see any reason why you couldn't have an automatic fail-over from a heat pump to a wood stove. It's harder with forced air, but forced air sucks anyway.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#87

Post by efitz »

What gets me is why so many localities are pushing or requiring electrification when the grid in many areas is already overloaded. For goodness sake California has fairly regular rolling blackouts and yet many cities are banning gas hookups.

The right energy tech, IMO, is “all of them”.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#88

Post by acidburnNSA »

twobitshifter wrote: post #71
acidburnNSA wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why electrify all the things instead of decarbonize all the things? Lots of places use zero carbon nuclear district heating to take advantage of the hot water for building heat. It can be pumped 100 km from the plant as it is at Beznau. This makes nuclear more cost effective as well since you're using a valuable product (heat) that is otherwise wasted.

The idea of nuclear power plants in the US near residential communities is a non-starter. Solar thermal or geothermal might be an option, but I believe heat pumps outperform those options on cost.

How is it a non-starter? Nuclear plants are low-carbon and extremely safe [1]. 100 km is a long way. There are millions of people in the USA living within 100 km of a nuclear plant. Showing people the numbers on nuclear isn't that hard.

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#89

Post by zdragnar »

beamgirl wrote: post #28

My dad is a retired heat and power engineer up in Maine (20something years at a paper mill). We probably spent half of Christmas talking about his new minisplit. He has been tracking his electricity bill and heating oil bills in spreadsheets for years. He still has the old oil boiler in place for emergencies, but as far as I know he hasn't had to use it yet this year. He said he wanted more data before he made a defi…

To be fair, pretty much anything would save money over heating oil, including just burning money.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#90

Post by beamgirl »

londons_explore wrote: post #7
flyingfences wrote: post #3

There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…

For 'enthusiasts', a dual heat source system is a good plan. But regular folk want to just pay the energy bill and have a warm home, whatever the weather outside. They don't care to worry about lighting the wood stove on super cold days. They don't want to have to have a wood delivery separate from their energy bill, and be carting it around in boxes. They don't want to huddle into the room with the wood stove becaus…

I grew up in Maine and have memories of losing power for 10 days in a row. Supplementing with wood is already fairly normal just to save money. Even people who don't regularly burn wood or coal still keep a stove on hand for emergencies. When the power would go out we used to have a fire tending rotation to keep the temps high enough to stop the pipes from freezing. Heating your home is definitely of interest to just about every Mainer.
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