Are these air to air systems? Retrofitting heat pumps for air to water central heating, as is normally done in the UK, is really expensive and rarely makes economic sense for an individual household.
Yes
Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
61–70 of 176 posts
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#62There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…
Don't they just start working essentially as effective resistive heater below some temperature ? So theoretically just oversizing it a bit should've been enough for the once in 10 years cold snap event. Woodstove with some supplies probably cheaper than oversizing tho
I've heard that with heat pumps you want to be very careful about getting the sizing correct. So if your plan is to get a heat pump and improve home insulation you need to do the insulation part first so you don't end up with an oversized heat pump.
This is, basically, my plan out here in the midwest. I want a wood burning stove insert into my fireplace, improved insulation, and finally a heat pump. Long term I'll completely eliminate natural gas.
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#63There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…
In addition to this, I think we should go back to doing things the hard way, the old-school way: adapt and adjust your lifestyle to temperature changes like our ancestors did. Let the temperature dictate your cooking: do the dishes that require oven use, that require you to have 3 stoves on at the same time (and crucially, avoid these dishes in the summer!). Go on a bulk in the winter time so that you are more resili…
You are not wrong.
Blankets... sleep with a sheet in the summer, and the 14 layers in the winter. I know a few people who run the AC very low at night to keep cool with enough blankets to be comfortable in an igloo.
Every thing needs to change in the winter... Those PJ pants you plod around the house in, fleece in the winter ONLY. Seasonal clothing matters too!
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#64I worry about the 'futureproofness' of heat pumps. Specifically, heat pumps use more energy on cold days. They use a massive amount more energy on the coldest days. Today, if you use double the electricity, it costs double the money. Thats affordable as long as it happens rarely. But, with lots of people getting EV's and heat pumps, and the generation mix getting more wind and solar, I forsee energy companies forcing…
When I saw futureproofness I thought you were going to talk about repairability. Thats probably my biggest concern. My heating system is largely made out of commodity parts. Aquastats and zone control boxes form the control system, copper pipes soldered on, pex crimped on. All parts you can buy at any hardware store in the country, and all interchangeable. As long as the actual tank and fire tubes in my boilers are intact, I can keep them running as long as there is oxygen. While I know the basics of refrigeration, I don't actually know how interchangeable any of the internals are, but I kinda expect them to be less interchangeable than my old boilers.
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#65I know heat pumps are all the rage on HN these days, but I looked into them for myself in Indiana, and they don't seem to make financial sense at all, unfortunately.
My utility, NIPSCO, charges $0.25699/therm for gas. There are 29.3 kWh of energy in 1 therm of gas, and my furnace is 95% efficient, so this works out to an electric equivalent of $0.009/kWh. That's more than an order of magnitude cheaper than the electric equivalent! Even a really efficient heat pump isn't going to be able to overcome that.
Am I doing the calculations wrong, or are my utility rates way out of whack, or are heat pumps just generally more expensive for everyone to run, but they still think it's worth it? I'm trying to understand how my situation is so different, because I was pretty excited about swapping out my gas furnace for a heat pump and went down that rabbit hole quite a ways before realizing my specific utility rates don't seem to make sense for it.
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#66There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…
Don't they just start working essentially as effective resistive heater below some temperature ? So theoretically just oversizing it a bit should've been enough for the once in 10 years cold snap event. Woodstove with some supplies probably cheaper than oversizing tho
And far warmer
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#67What’s the cost of a kWh in Maine?
The newer houses here in Japan tend to be all-electric (water, stove, AC) and the current prices (~¥40/kWh) make a lot wish for kerosene heaters of the past decades.
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#68Are these air to air systems? Retrofitting heat pumps for air to water central heating, as is normally done in the UK, is really expensive and rarely makes economic sense for an individual household.
They are air to air. The hydronic heat pumps are not common in the US AFAIK, but I’d love to hear if anyone has found an affordable solution.
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#69I worry about the 'futureproofness' of heat pumps. Specifically, heat pumps use more energy on cold days. They use a massive amount more energy on the coldest days. Today, if you use double the electricity, it costs double the money. Thats affordable as long as it happens rarely. But, with lots of people getting EV's and heat pumps, and the generation mix getting more wind and solar, I forsee energy companies forcing…
Seems to me that if regulators allow that kind of dynamic pricing, then it would come with much cheaper rates at other times. Suppose you did pay $300 on one cold night... but it also turned out that your electric bill for May and September was basically $0. Would that be the worst thing in the world? Utilities are monopolies, and regulators keep an eye on their total bottom line. A massive yearly profit would come i…
No utility would want to build power plant that works 10% of the year tho, that's the problem
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
In addition to this, I think we should go back to doing things the hard way, the old-school way: adapt and adjust your lifestyle to temperature changes like our ancestors did. Let the temperature dictate your cooking: do the dishes that require oven use, that require you to have 3 stoves on at the same time (and crucially, avoid these dishes in the summer!). Go on a bulk in the winter time so that you are more resili…
You are not wrong. Blankets... sleep with a sheet in the summer, and the 14 layers in the winter. I know a few people who run the AC very low at night to keep cool with enough blankets to be comfortable in an igloo. Every thing needs to change in the winter... Those PJ pants you plod around the house in, fleece in the winter ONLY. Seasonal clothing matters too!
Body insulation is way more efficient than the pink stuff you put in your attic! Cheaper, too!