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Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

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Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#51

Post by dsfyu404ed »

Scoundreller wrote: post #29
hedora wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dual source heatpump + Solar + battery + propane generator might be OK. The batteries would need to somehow be kept warm though. (The solar and battery are there to stretch out the propane supply until the delivery truck gets past whatever road blockages exist, and then addresses the inevitable shortage cause by the electricity going out.) Of course, an 80% efficient wood stove costs a small fraction as much as the a…

Too bad few backup generators have the capability of dumping their heat output into the home via coolant loops or exhaust heat capture.

Because the residential ones are mostly small enough to be air cooled.

Exhaust heat is fine in theory but HN would be screaming bloody murder if even one person died from CO as a result of a shoddy install or cracked heat exchanger so it's basically a nonstarter if you're a big juicy lawsuit target like a business. While there's nothing fundamentally different from a forced hot air furnace the novelty factor makes fending off the ambulance chasers more expensive than it's worth.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#52

Post by justin66 »

rsynnott wrote: post #21

I find all this fear mongering about heatpumps in the US currently to be a little odd, because they've been popular in some cold countries in Europe for some time. If there was going to be a problem, there would already have been a problem.

Pushes on the part of utilities for heat pumps in the past were made with systems that honestly sucked. People remember how much they sucked.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#53

Post by adql »

flyingfences wrote: post #3

There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…

Don't they just start working essentially as effective resistive heater below some temperature ? So theoretically just oversizing it a bit should've been enough for the once in 10 years cold snap event.

Woodstove with some supplies probably cheaper than oversizing tho

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#54

Post by teeray »

londons_explore wrote: post #7
flyingfences wrote: post #3

There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…

For 'enthusiasts', a dual heat source system is a good plan. But regular folk want to just pay the energy bill and have a warm home, whatever the weather outside. They don't care to worry about lighting the wood stove on super cold days. They don't want to have to have a wood delivery separate from their energy bill, and be carting it around in boxes. They don't want to huddle into the room with the wood stove becaus…

This is a dangerous mindset in NH/ME though, because redundancies are what will keep your house from freezing. Your primary heat source may “just work” until it doesn’t (when you need it most). Then you’re doing battle in Home Depot with others in the same situation to try to claim the last space heater so your pipes don’t freeze.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#55

Post by hedora »

What a fitting anti-electrification PR campaign for the 120th anniversary of Edison intentionally (allegedly, and perhaps fraudulently) electrocuting a homicidal elephant to teach us of the dangers of alternating current!

https://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/science-questio...

Anyway kids, remember, every time your heat pump spins up, Dumbo’s mom dies. Now, drink up the fuel oil the nice man in the red suit delivered last Christmas. It’ll put hair on your chest.

More info (warning: graphic images):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocuting_an_Elephant

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#56

Post by adql »

londons_explore wrote: post #7
flyingfences wrote: post #3

There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…

For 'enthusiasts', a dual heat source system is a good plan. But regular folk want to just pay the energy bill and have a warm home, whatever the weather outside. They don't care to worry about lighting the wood stove on super cold days. They don't want to have to have a wood delivery separate from their energy bill, and be carting it around in boxes. They don't want to huddle into the room with the wood stove becaus…

Well, even if you assume 100% reliable supply of whatever kind of energy (gas, power etc.) your system needs, the heating device can still fail.

Having some kind of backup in places where it can get really cold is always a good thing IMO even if it is just for one or two rooms

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#57

Post by vanilla_nut »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #16
londons_explore wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 'enthusiasts', a dual heat source system is a good plan. But regular folk want to just pay the energy bill and have a warm home, whatever the weather outside. They don't care to worry about lighting the wood stove on super cold days. They don't want to have to have a wood delivery separate from their energy bill, and be carting it around in boxes. They don't want to huddle into the room with the wood stove becaus…

I would always want a wood stove or at minimum a fireplace in sufficiently cold climates (anywhere it gets cold enough for snow to accumulate) if my heating was electric. Easy for your power to go out, and it’s somewhere between uncomfortable and dangerous when that happens If you don’t have a backup.

Additionally, if you do a lot of outdoor stuff in a snowy climate, a wood stove is a godsend for drying off your snowy outdoor apparel and warming yourself up after being outside.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#58

Post by stanleydrew »

overreg wrote: post #37

Are these air to air systems? Retrofitting heat pumps for air to water central heating, as is normally done in the UK, is really expensive and rarely makes economic sense for an individual household.

These seem to be mostly so-called "mini-splits" which are air to air ductless systems.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#59

Post by adql »

flyingfences wrote: post #25
hedora wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dual source heatpump + Solar + battery + propane generator might be OK. The batteries would need to somehow be kept warm though. (The solar and battery are there to stretch out the propane supply until the delivery truck gets past whatever road blockages exist, and then addresses the inevitable shortage cause by the electricity going out.) Of course, an 80% efficient wood stove costs a small fraction as much as the a…

> The batteries would need to somehow be kept warm though. If I were buying such a setup, I'd just put the batteries in the basement. Plenty of space, and it stays 40-50°ish year-round here.

Not that many homes are built with basements nowadays.

Water to water heat pump with pipes being directly under building's basement might've been pretty neat solution tbh, if you're digging for basement anyway might as well put some piping there for the heat pump

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#60

Post by hammock »

pen2l wrote: post #46
flyingfences wrote: post #3

There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…

In addition to this, I think we should go back to doing things the hard way, the old-school way: adapt and adjust your lifestyle to temperature changes like our ancestors did. Let the temperature dictate your cooking: do the dishes that require oven use, that require you to have 3 stoves on at the same time (and crucially, avoid these dishes in the summer!). Go on a bulk in the winter time so that you are more resili…

Your ideas are good for today, however I question how accurate they are for "our ancestors." Most people in e.g. the colonial days didn't have an oven - they went to the town baker to use theirs when needed. They also didn't have three stoves and all the pots and utensils required to use them simultaneously
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