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Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

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Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#111

Post by KingLancelot »

pffft8888 wrote: post #108
BulgarianIdiot wrote: post #86

Browsers are doing well. I'm more worried about the fact the browser is turning into the entire operating system these days. Even the apps use the browser engine for a lot of functionality these days. It's like a parasite, the OS is being eaten inside out. I'd be fine with this, it's a typical disruption process. Except the browser stack is full of legacy features, is bloated, and I'd hate for this to be the de-facto…

Browsers are using what the OS provides. I am not aware of any browser reimplementing Vulcan, DirectX or Metal, nor am I familiar with any browser reimplementing any feature of the underlying OS. It's just an application where you can build other applications and it provides access to some OS features via a scripting (higher level) language that's highly imperfect but thoroughly documented and used by millions. Speak…

[dead]

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#112

Post by frameset »

medo-bear wrote: post #98
frameset wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do try and evangalise for it when I'm with others and they complain about ads on their android web browsers. But it's a tough sell these days.

yeah evangelising anything hardly works. people in large are always hesitant to move away from the familiar. i find show and tease works better :)

Ha, you make a good point.

So instead I can show them the same site they're on, but with no ads. Wait for the "how come your view looks different?"

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#113

Post by SSLy »

omeid2 wrote: post #13
karussell wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how would you define "commercial operating system"? Is Android one or is it "Linux"?

No; and No. Anything that is not licensed as "Free Software" or "Open-Source software" is "Commercial Operating System".

Linux can be commercial, look at RHEL, SuSE, Ubuntu. The moniker you're looking for is proprietary.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#114

Post by pyaamb »

wrldos wrote: post #106

I can't honestly even consider reading this from the vendor in question. I appreciate Firefox and use it on a regular basis but no browser, OS vendor or standard agency out there has an ounce of respect left from me. Nothing any OS vendor or browser vendor has done in the last decade has been a user-focused positive experience. They have become delivery tools for revenue only rather than information access. Even Fire…

I'd like to see more money that Mozilla receives go into browser development. I was excited about the Servo project but feel like maybe they aren't serious about doing a fresh rust implementation

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#115

Post by mid-kid »

midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

On Android, it's often impossible to replace the chrome webview. The only way to do so is by modifying the system's whitelist for webviews. On linux and other platforms, apps get a choice of what webview they use, be it qtwebengine, webkit-gtk, or what have you.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#116

Post by wrldos »

lovich wrote: post #38
midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

>...(or better yet, Firefox Nightly) ... I think this is some of the disconnect between users on this site who don't understand why people would possibly actively choose iOS even with the lockin. Most people do not want to use a product that is constantly updating and adding features in that are going to be taken out shortly, for something as basic nowadays as web browsing. If you're on the cool new technology people…

It’s not that here. I use iOS because I don’t want anyone embedding several bloated half baked ancient hole ridden security nightmare browser engines in their apps which do everything possible to bypass system wide network restrictions so they can carry out whatever bad behaviour their business model thinks is acceptable. I want one system wide browser that respects the security configuration at OS level.

I want this for myself and the surface area of our 500 or so staff.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#117

Post by askonomm »

iSnow wrote: post #36
frizlab wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because of , not thanks to. Once again the EU meddle with things they should not. And once again I’m pissed off by their regulations (though this time at least it makes a bit more sense than the previous time…)

I am honestly glad that the EU forces vendors to put the customer first. I won't be sad if they force opening of the walled garden that is the iOS app store.

> customers first

> opening of walled garden

Yeah, I wonder how secure those customers would be when any kind of third party app store can just show up and start releasing data stealing, virus-infested apps, with no oversight?

The idea that allowing a wild west of things because "freedom" is somehow better for the end customer is very shortsighted. I've never had to assist anybody in my family who has an iPhone, that cannot be said for Android however.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#118

Post by HeckFeck »

jacooper wrote: post #88
medo-bear wrote: post #63

i think mobile users are unaware how good firefox+ublock origin is. i constantly get bombarded by disgusting adds while browsing news portals, cooking recipes, etc. imagine reading about some great cooking ideas and midway through you see an advertisement for "revolutionary medication for foot fungus" with before and after pictures to show. and yes this happens even in "private" tabs. if anything mozilla should give…

Its really buggy on android. I find Brave to be much brave on mobile, and on desktop its much better on the security side, especially on Linux.

I went from Firefox to Brave, only because I need bookmark sync from systems besides Macintoshes. We'd likely agree advert blocking is mandatory. I didn't see any advert blocking in FF for iPhone, while Brave looks to use the same blacklists as uBlock Origin.

So far it has caught nearly every advert and annoyance. Though I still am wearied by bombardments from the browser itself to sign up for 'services that respect my data', I get that they need to make money but I am still ticked off; it seems a little contradictory.

Also brave search has serious problems filtering out SEOspam blogs.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#119

Post by roydigerhund »

midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

The advantage Safari gives users on iOS (and macOS) over Chrome and probably also Firefox is power consumption. Which is a crucial factor on mobile devices.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#120

Post by wrldos »

pyaamb wrote: post #114
wrldos wrote: post #106

I can't honestly even consider reading this from the vendor in question. I appreciate Firefox and use it on a regular basis but no browser, OS vendor or standard agency out there has an ounce of respect left from me. Nothing any OS vendor or browser vendor has done in the last decade has been a user-focused positive experience. They have become delivery tools for revenue only rather than information access. Even Fire…

I'd like to see more money that Mozilla receives go into browser development. I was excited about the Servo project but feel like maybe they aren't serious about doing a fresh rust implementation

Yes I agree there. They seem to be a PR and marketing company these days with the odd reskin here and there.
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