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Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

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Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#61

Post by loup-vaillant »

lovich wrote: post #38
midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

>...(or better yet, Firefox Nightly) ... I think this is some of the disconnect between users on this site who don't understand why people would possibly actively choose iOS even with the lockin. Most people do not want to use a product that is constantly updating and adding features in that are going to be taken out shortly, for something as basic nowadays as web browsing. If you're on the cool new technology people…

Excuse me, your conclusion doesn't seem to follow from your premises. I mean, "Please OS vendor I want something simple. That hidden `sideload` option is complicated, please lock down my machine."

Like, seriously? No one's that stupid. Sure most people want a decent, clear default option, but no one want that to be the only option. At least not for themselves. Because for some reason I see many people arguing that other folks are too stupid for options and should be locked down instead. For their own… safety? convenience? And that just reeks of authoritarianism.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#62

Post by boomboomsubban »

krono wrote: post #47
boomboomsubban wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sincere question btw, as far as I know they’re “non-profit” but they get a good bit of hate They sort of aren't a nonprofit anymore. Too much of their money came from the search deal as opposed to donations so they had to spin off the Mozilla Corporation which is completely owned by the nonprofit Mozilla Foundation. The foundation is what does research like this, and they're funded by donations and a certain percent…

You must agree this is completely unjustifiable: > In 2018 she received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, which represents a 400% payrise since 2008. On the same period, Firefox marketshare was down 85%. > In 2020, after returning to the position of CEO, her salary had risen to over $3 million. In the same year the Mozilla Corporation laid off approximately 250 employees due to shrinking revenues. B…

Not particularly. From 2008 to 2018, their revenue grew more than 400%, and much of that was due to executives doing a better job selling the search deal. Then getting more money when you become CEO seems normal.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#63

Post by medo-bear »

i think mobile users are unaware how good firefox+ublock origin is. i constantly get bombarded by disgusting adds while browsing news portals, cooking recipes, etc. imagine reading about some great cooking ideas and midway through you see an advertisement for "revolutionary medication for foot fungus" with before and after pictures to show. and yes this happens even in "private" tabs. if anything mozilla should give financial backing to extensions such as ublock origin

EDIT: should say "android users". iphones are beyond help even with firefox

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#64

Post by rini17 »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #45
rerdavies wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have $1.1 billion dollars in net assets. How is that NOT drowning in money?!

for a company supposedly competing with Google $1148 billion net worth, that's a rounding error.

Do you imply better integrating browser with the OS is a trillion $ level project?

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#65

Post by mardifoufs »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #30
krono wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been overhearing lots of complaints coming out of the Ubuntu corner about how everything is moving to snap exclusive distribution. Not too familiar with the whole snap ordeal myself, but I understand it is quite the shitshow and that can't be good for the Linux browser landscape.

Ubuntu is dead.

It's by far the best distro, even for production loads. I know, controversial opinion, but ubuntu has never been better (even if I dislike snaps). And almost everything is now built to run on Ubuntu first. Even RHEL would require tinkering for tons of software I need in dev/prod.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#66

Post by loup-vaillant »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #30
krono wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been overhearing lots of complaints coming out of the Ubuntu corner about how everything is moving to snap exclusive distribution. Not too familiar with the whole snap ordeal myself, but I understand it is quite the shitshow and that can't be good for the Linux browser landscape.

Ubuntu is dead.

Based on what? What's the most popular/live alternative?

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#67

Post by nibbleshifter »

kolinko wrote: post #50
midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

“offender” suggests undue negativity. For me, the biggest selling point of iOS is it’s lock in - be it in browsers or the store. My phone is the centre of my privacy, and I want it to be as solid and as safe as possible. So far nobody developed a mobile system that is more open and just as safe and robust.

GrapheneOS is more open, but also significantly more robust than iOS.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#68

Post by jemmyw »

midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

You missed ChromeOS which is the second worst after iOS. Then Windows, where you can set the default but MS keep trying to push edge in your face, then MacOS which only really pushes Safari on first install.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#69

Post by kajecounterhack »

lovich wrote: post #38
midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

>...(or better yet, Firefox Nightly) ... I think this is some of the disconnect between users on this site who don't understand why people would possibly actively choose iOS even with the lockin. Most people do not want to use a product that is constantly updating and adding features in that are going to be taken out shortly, for something as basic nowadays as web browsing. If you're on the cool new technology people…

Is it really a feature to not be allowed to use non-webkit Chrome on my iPhone, even if it might unlock superior features? Is it a feature that Google Fi can't work optimally on iPhone thanks to their anti-competitive restrictions? Is it a feature that I have to use Siri, which is way inferior to Google Assistant, when communicating in CarPlay?

Is the planned obsolescence a feature too? My 12 year old Mac laptop is dead because MacOS does not allow me to upgrade past a certain version, and the cryptography primitives do not update past that so no recent browsers support the platform. My only recourse is linux. In the future this will not be possible either because normal Linux doesn't support the new hardware, unless Asahi Linux really manages to take off.

I choose iOS because the hardware is good and _some_ of the software is good. I can't stand their business practices, and they don't actually get a lot of things right. They're just doing what MSFT wanted to do with their OS & software, except that they've monopolized the hardware too and somehow that's what protects them from antitrust.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#70

Post by anon1385 »

midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

>they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers

I guess they think everybody forgot about the many years and hundreds of millions of dollars that Mozilla spent trying to get people to adopt FirefoxOS. An operating system that… only allowed using Firefox as the web browser.

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