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Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

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Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#51

Post by nhchris »

kolinko wrote: post #50
midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

“offender” suggests undue negativity. For me, the biggest selling point of iOS is it’s lock in - be it in browsers or the store. My phone is the centre of my privacy, and I want it to be as solid and as safe as possible. So far nobody developed a mobile system that is more open and just as safe and robust.

So don't install alternate app stores or side-load apps. Why do you need lock-in?

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#52

Post by mschuster91 »

frizlab wrote: post #26
flohofwoe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always Safari under the hood, but that may change soon thanks to EU regulations ( https://www.macrumors.com/2022/12/14/apple-considering-non-w... )

because of , not thanks to. Once again the EU meddle with things they should not. And once again I’m pissed off by their regulations (though this time at least it makes a bit more sense than the previous time…)

> Once again the EU meddle with things they should not.

One of the major reasons of existence of the EU is to provide a common-level playground for everyone, where everyone has a reasonable chance of success based on merits. Forcing Microsoft to break up their anti-competitive bullshit back in the IE6 days was a good thing, and so is breaking up the engine and app store monopoly on Apple's side today.

Another reason of existence is waste reduction, and holy hell did the EU do a good job there by getting everyone sans Apple to agree on micro-USB, then on USB-C once it achieved reasonable market penetration for everyone including Apple.

These days I only need to carry two USB-C power bricks from Anker on vacations to charge everything I have from my array of phones to my laptops (corp and private), and once I find the money to upgrade my Sony camera, that as well.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#53

Post by severino »

midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

> Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store

Not every Android device has access to Google Play, yet Mozilla still doesn't provide an APK download for Firefox from its website to make sure those users can have their browser too, despite all of this complaining.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#54

Post by brozaman »

lovich wrote: post #38
midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

>...(or better yet, Firefox Nightly) ... I think this is some of the disconnect between users on this site who don't understand why people would possibly actively choose iOS even with the lockin. Most people do not want to use a product that is constantly updating and adding features in that are going to be taken out shortly, for something as basic nowadays as web browsing. If you're on the cool new technology people…

> I think this is some of the disconnect between users on this site who don't understand why people would possibly actively choose iOS even with the lockin. Most people do not want to use a product that is constantly updating and adding features

Precisely the reason why I have an iPhone and an iPad is because they give me 5 years of updates and even more of security fixes.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#55

Post by em-bee »

lovich wrote: post #38
midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

>...(or better yet, Firefox Nightly) ... I think this is some of the disconnect between users on this site who don't understand why people would possibly actively choose iOS even with the lockin. Most people do not want to use a product that is constantly updating and adding features in that are going to be taken out shortly, for something as basic nowadays as web browsing. If you're on the cool new technology people…

the recommendation for Firefox Nightly aside, noone is forced to accept constantly updating apps, and adding features that get removed after a short time is also an unfair characterization. i don't update Firefox more often than i want to, and even when i update, i rarely notice any changes. big changes come less than once a year.

but i have the choice to update or switch browsers if i want to, and that's the point.

the restrictions only remove choice. they don't add anything.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#56

Post by agos »

Dalewyn wrote: post #48
nhchris wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people choose a browser, compared to those that use whatever the OS defaults to/pushes on them?

The millions if not billions of Windows users who choose to use Chrome? Also, using the OS default is also a choice. If someone uses Edge in Windows, that's a choice. It's only iOS where users have no choice.

Chrome is also pushed quite aggressively by Google

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#57

Post by kolinko »

politelemon wrote: post #35
the_other wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s only iOS/iPadOS that Apple does this with. And iOS makes up 18% of web traffic. That’s a lot, but it means 82% can use the browser they want at any time. Chrome makes up 80-odd percent of all other traffic, so the stats overall look like: Chrome: 65.6% iOS Safari: 18% All others: 16.4% Personally, I’m more concerned about Chrome than iOS.

Platform abuse is still not acceptable and should not be justified. For people stuck in that ecosystem the lack of choice is 100%, relativity to global traffic is irrelevant.

Nobody is stuck in the ecosystem. You can change the platform at any time.

And for me, I feel having more choice on iPhone compared to Android. With android I would need to limit the apps that I install because of potential security flaws.

iOS wins all the security rankings (e.g. https://nordvpn.com/blog/ios-vs-android-security/ ), and it’s closely related to its lockin model.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#58

Post by largepeepee »

kolinko wrote: post #50
midoridensha wrote: post #2

Just reading the beginning, it looks like they're mainly complaining about proprietary OS vendors restricting users' choice in browsers through various shenanigans. Linux users (for desktop systems) don't have this problem, and for mobile, Android users can easily install Firefox (or better yet, Firefox Nightly) through the Google Play store and set it to be the default browser. Basically, if you want to have choice…

“offender” suggests undue negativity. For me, the biggest selling point of iOS is it’s lock in - be it in browsers or the store. My phone is the centre of my privacy, and I want it to be as solid and as safe as possible. So far nobody developed a mobile system that is more open and just as safe and robust.

>My phone is the centre of my privacy, and I want it to be as solid and as safe as possible.

If privacy was the main concern, you wouldn't be using any of the ad vendors, which includes apple.

Yes, apple does sell your data. They just don't want others to do it too.

There are plenty of smaller security focused phone vendors these days that doesn't intersect with user interest.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#59

Post by Dalewyn »

agos wrote: post #56
Dalewyn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The millions if not billions of Windows users who choose to use Chrome? Also, using the OS default is also a choice. If someone uses Edge in Windows, that's a choice. It's only iOS where users have no choice.

Chrome is also pushed quite aggressively by Google

And they continue to win the fight Mozilla cannot.

OS restrictions, if any, are not the reason Mozilla is dead in the water.

Re: Browsers are essential and how operating systems are holding them back (2022) [pdf] (2022)

#60

Post by em-bee »

hardware2win wrote: post #44
account-5 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one example is forcing you to open links in edge regardless of your "default" browser: https://betanews.com/2021/05/07/force-web-links-open-in-defa...

As I see this is not about opening normal links This is about opening link targeted to edge "Copy the following test link: microsoft-edge: https://www.betanews.com "

and exactly why should anyone be allowed to target their links to a specific browser instead of letting me use the browser of my choice?
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