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Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

economist.com

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Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#331

Post by knewter »

xyzzyz wrote: post #316
freejazz wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so obtuse as to not be genuinely believable. I have no reason to believe you struggled to understand the poster's meaning to the point that you genuinely offered that as a means of creating greater understanding.

What was the poster’s meaning, then? Sorry, I genuinely do not understand what you are getting at here.

I always assume a reply like this is generated by an ai, because a real human would have tried to make himself understood if he's going to bother saying things

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#332

Post by haberman »

ModernMech wrote: post #329
thwayunion wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ivy leagues are exceptional and subject to their own dynamics. I've never been at one, so I can't speak to them. (Have you been a job candidate or on the hiring committee at a top institution? If so I'm curious; if not, I don't have much interest in conjecturing about the accuracy of flame bait reporting on this topic atm to be honest.) I do, however, know that I am pretty accurately describing how the other 4000…

> Have you been a job candidate or on the hiring committee at a top institution? I have been both, and I would say your take is basically accurate, but it’s actually more fundamental than what you describe. Diversity statements are needed because teaching a diverse classroom is part of the job today . Applicants must demonstrate that they’ve grappled with the issues that arise while teaching. Applicants who can’t art…

When I see someone argue from first-hand experience that this is all no big deal, I feel fairly confident predicting that their politics are more or less aligned with present-day progressivism. And within that context, I can believe that it's no big deal to merely repeat the progressive world view that the interviewers want to hear at that moment.

What would change my view on this is to hear someone who has reasonably strong disagreement with present-day progressive stances on education, and nevertheless felt comfortable stating their true beliefs in a DEI statement and was still hired.

> Applicants who can’t articulate a salient position on real issues they will face on the job are rejected for being unqualified

But that is the whole question right there. What is a salient position? If only one world view is credited as being "salient", then it is a de facto political litmus test.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#333

Post by wonderwonder »

goatlover wrote: post #321
bArray wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the sort of thing that confounds me. It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. It's the civil rights movement in reverse. It's worse, you tell somebody they are a victim enough, and they begin to believe it, they even play the role of a victim. You are now starting to see a generation of young minorities th…

And if you're a minority group like Asians, Hispanics or African immigrants, you get called terms like white-adjacent or internalizing racism when upholding values of hard work and discipline to get ahead, because those are somehow values of a "white supremacist" society.

I'm still recovering from the Smithsonian's presentation on whiteness (which I assume you are referencing) that listed white negative traits as things like:

Planning for the future

Delayed Gratification

Self Reliance

Adherence to the nuclear family

Objective, Rational thinking

Hard work being the key to success

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#334

Post by ModernMech »

thwayunion wrote: post #283
adamsmith143 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>LMAO. If you're hiring top-tier researchers there's enough cut-throat competition for revenue that DEI statements are marginal and everyone agrees no one gives a shit about Service (DEI is service). So why play the kabuki game at all if it's all so pointless. >The schools where DEI statements matter the most in hiring may or may not even have an office of sponsored research (aka not even enough grant revenue to both…

> So why play the kabuki game at all if it's all so pointless. That's academia. I'm really, really serious. You also submit, as a 20-something who has only ever been a student: 1. a multi-page research statement summarizing a five year research agenda, 2. a multi-page teaching statement (in some cases the candidate has literally just been a grader for one course and stretches that out for 2.5 pages), 3. three letters…

> You also submit, as a 20-something who has only ever been a student:

Tbf the process is the same for senior candidate applications. It may seem like a lot for junior applicants but the bar is lowered significantly. But like you say, it’s competitive, so naturally the pageantry gets turned to 11.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#335

Post by knewter »

kevingadd wrote: post #258
megaman821 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a single Asian American in the Billboard Top 100? Do you think if you asked 100 Asian American families and 100 Black American families; would you rather have your child go to an Ivy League college or appear in the Billboard Top 100, that the answers would be relatively equal between the two groups? It is not a problem to be solved when different cultural groups make different choices for themselves and thei…

I don't think "it's way too late to easily solve these problems" really supports claims that DEI is discriminatory or bad, though. It just means it's ineffective. Investing in children and creating equal opportunities for children are both great measures to take to boost diversity in education and the workplace.

An ineffective waste of time is bad

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#336

Post by ModernMech »

goatlover wrote: post #323
shadowgovt wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't "ability to work with people of a diverse background" also one of the merits in a very, very diverse society?

Why can't that just be "ability to work with people" full stop, regardless of their background? If society is very, very diverse, then surely we all have to work, live and grow up with different people anyway.

Sure that’s fine a fine sentiment to hold. But it’s also anodyne and unspecific. It’s certainly not the kind of thing that’s going to differentiate you in a competitive job application process.

Because the job in fact is to teach a diverse classroom. So if all you have to say are banal platitudes in your DEI statement, you will be passed over.

Not because your position is wrong, it’s not. But because others are able to articulate with specificity and examples as to how they handle the job of teaching a diverse classroom. That’s what you’re up against as an applicant.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#337

Post by jrm4 »

onetimeusename wrote: post #260
jrm4 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop. There is a universe of difference between curating selections for children's and/or adult libraries, and a government official stepping in to control and/or ban books. The former is part of the job, the latter is overreach.

Sure it is. So hypothetically if some content you found objectionable was being taught to children in, let's pick a state at random, California, you would be opposed to Gov. Newsom stepping in to ban the material? Let's say the material had a history of being politically charged but the other side insists it is valid material. I'll leave it up to you to decide what is objectionable but see my other comment for sugges…

Yes.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#338

Post by ModernMech »

defen wrote: post #220
l33t233372 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t believe getting upset about something as trivial as having to write a small essay atop of the regular rigorous rigmarole associated with entering a university (as a student or faculty member). This doesn’t make sense to me; let alone being upset on behalf of others!

> something as trivial as having to write a small essay Do you think the essay itself is really why people are upset, or are you being glib? It's hard to tell.

I know that people posting here aren’t upset about the essays, because 99% of them haven’t read a single one. This is not exactly a community of educators, but technology industry insiders. The level of unfounded self-assuredness on display here about what goes on at e.g. a UC Berkeley faculty hiring committee rivals ChatGPT.

Which brings us back to: if no one here has read any of these essays, what‘a with all the angry comments?

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#339

Post by ModernMech »

Karunamon wrote: post #134
shadowgovt wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every company I've worked for has a code of conduct we had to sign. I didn't have to take an oath to get my diploma, but I'm not a medical doctor. I've also never had to swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, etc., as I've never witnessed anything the Courts cared to interrogate me on. There's a lot of contexts where oaths are required; they're not limited to the USSR and GDR. Oaths are just one of those tools soc…

Signing a code of conduct which proscribes specific behaviors is not in any way comparable to professing allegiance to a specific political system.

And DEI statements are in no way sworn allegiances to political systems. You can write an essay exploring the difficulties wheelchair users face in education, and how you e worked to make that better. That would be a fine statement. How would that in any way be what you describe?

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#340

Post by tablespoon »

astrange wrote: post #315
tablespoon wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues. > He's not going to do anything about it. He's going to start a few fights to get press attention, then give up on it as soon as they stop paying attention, since he's just running your state government as PR for a presidential campaign.…

Well, someone who isn't running for president.

>> So who will do something about it?

> Well, someone who isn't running for president.

Huh? The only person who will do something about it is someone who refuses to seek the power to do something about it?

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