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An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

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241–250 of 353 posts

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are large parts of the US where there is no such NIMBY voting allowed It's called zoning. Do you know of any notable residential areas without zoning?

I was referring more to the additional processes that have been weaponized like CEQA. In most of the US, additional zoning is welcomed. Zoning for smaller locales is controlled by financial limitations, rather than entrenched interests. Who doesn't want utilities to be brought to their area? For example, Puyallup WA is ~40 mi away from Seattle and there are still residences in Industrial zoned areas waiting for resid…

Zoning controls the type of housing that is developed, and thus far typically represents the interests of NIMBYs without explicitly saying as much.

Sure, changing zoning from "light industrial" or "commercial" to include some level of residential is often welcome, and is generally a good idea. But such changes are not the crux of the battle over housing. We don't actually want towns to grow in every direction without bounds, as a general rule: we want them to have sufficient housing that the people who need to live there can afford to do so. That typically requires dealing with the zoning laws that prevent increases in residential density ... i.e. NIMBY-ism.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#242

Something that I've noticed in these anti work types is they assume work has negative value, that by working for someone you are "losing" While you don't get paid the exact revenue you generate, I think that this kind of work has inherent value. It has plenty of learning opportunities which lead to income increases (edit: through promotion or going to a different employer, whichever is more optimal) because you becom…

I’ve seen these types and they seem to live in some alternate reality where they want to die on very strange hills. Saw one guy ruin his job because he refused to implement an internal tool because he didn’t like the privacy policy of the tool (his concern was that the external company hosted too much company data). Very trivial things become pointless wars.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the company cut has been getting bigger and bigger for the last 40 years. Productivity has increased and wages have not.

That's indeed true for the average worker, but are you sure it is the case for software engineer? How high were the salaries in the 80s?

Ultimately you always have the option of writing your own software. This is much easier than say starting your own package shipping center or whatever.

But there is a huge risk the software will never make money. Billions have been spent on failed software, the employees got to cash out and not care. So you trade risk for reward.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you square the circle of management wanting to pay employees the minimum they can for the maximum amount of their employees labor? The same way you circle the square of workers wanting as much compensation as possible for the least effort possible. In other words: The market of labour. > The company is a giant thing, with lawyers, power and resources that are impossible for an individual to push against and…

What you have just described is, in fact, an adversarial relationship. That's what it's called when two groups want the opposite thing.

That's what's called a deal, a negotiation, business. Two parties come to an agreement that they both accept. You can see it as win-win or lose-lose. People who complain for long time about the company they are working for have something in common with other abuse victims: They never leave.

I'm much more concerned about the deals I'm forced into without having ever accepted, such as paying tribute to the rulers.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#245
post #39

> Engineering culture encourages workers to collectively improve the company’s effectiveness. It encourages them to share knowledge with one another. To train each other. To build tools for one another. To bring new workers up to speed, and review each other’s work. To speed the company up. To seek out weaknesses in the company and fix them. / Engineers do this while they’re doing their actual job, the one the compan…

> Process improvement: Is this your job? Then no. This remark from TFA at least implies when it "is" part of your job, go for it. Perhaps you have rejected, or simply not engaged with, the "call" to recognize class warfare, however, or if I can be silly I'll call you a "capital sympathizer". From the frame of recognizing workers vs capitalists, you can't just say write off being exploited as "well you were paid to be…

Is TFA the new way of writing "the article"?

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not bucketing, but showing analogies, using the most prominent and at the same time controversial idea from OP that engineers should deny teaching their peers and lower-grade engineers, writing documentation and otherwise undermine the whole meritocratic makers culture.

Can you please explain your analogy, then? What do you view as analogous between these two commentaries and why? Edit: I think you provided half the analogy in this reply, but I can't perceive the connection to Raymond's article or understand why you are drawing that connection. To reuse your quote, what is the connection between engineers refusing to "go the extra mile" as described in the OP, and the creation of "a…

Both Marxists and SJWs (in the narrow meaning of the word, although I think that Marxists are part of SWJs) want to destroy the engineering culture. OP is attacking it directly, painting it as "free labor for entities that are trying to cut their wages".

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you square the circle It's squared by the employees wanting the maximum pay for the least amount of work. It's call "Supply & Demand". It's the Law. > impossible for an individual to push against and win anything that is contested Not impossible at all. I've done it many times. The power the employee has is to say "No" and go work for someone else, or start their own company. > Like 80 hour work weeks / chil…

> were necessary when productivity was much lower than today. Wow. just incredible. I've never seen the take that kids working in manufacturing jobs were necessary. Begs the question, necessary for whom?

Sarcasm: until we had publicly funded schools, what else was the urban working class going to do with their children all day long? Putting them to work made sense in a "making the ends meet" sort of way.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you look at wages + benefits, the increase is more or less proportional.

Can you point to something that convinced you of this?

I don't have a cite, but I saw a graph in the WSJ decades ago that laid "productivity" and "total worker compensation" on the same graph, and they neatly overlaid each other.

In any case, neglecting the value of employee benefits makes comparing salary to productivity a completely worthless statistic. What needs to be included are the values of:

1. health insurance

2. retirement benefits

3. stock options

4. so-called employer contributions

5. all payroll taxes

6. 401k employer contributions

7. stock purchase plans

8. sick leave

9. vacation

10. severance pay

11. bonuses

12. profit sharing

These can add up to 50% more than the salary.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to something that convinced you of this?

I don't have a cite, but I saw a graph in the WSJ decades ago that laid "productivity" and "total worker compensation" on the same graph, and they neatly overlaid each other. In any case, neglecting the value of employee benefits makes comparing salary to productivity a completely worthless statistic. What needs to be included are the values of: 1. health insurance 2. retirement benefits 3. stock options 4. so-called…

WSJ is also a very "pro business" paper, they aren't likely to publish anything that supports a pro labor pov

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#250

Yes, I agree 100%. Do not help those who seek to devalue you. Extract as much value for as little work as possible. The people who run these companies are not your friends and they’re not your family, take advantage of them at every opportunity you can. Don’t care if the company fails, don’t pay any mind to burning bridges, don’t bother giving two weeks, and certainly don’t do anything more than the bare minimum. All…

> Extract as much value from as little effort as possible.

insert capitalism vs. communism handshake meme

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