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An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

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Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#191

Post by lampshades »

RajT88 wrote: post #162
Supermancho wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Burning those bridges carries a cost to your career. I don't think this is borne out in practice. I've done very well and very poorly over the decades. It would have to be a very specific situation (lot of events unluckily coinciding) where coworkers/previous position could influence an interview process today.

Not necessarily influence an interview process, but connect you with jobs of your caliber, ones you may not be able to find (or which would not find you) otherwise. I know people (the aforementioned ex-govvies) who have no need of LinkedIn, because this is how they navigate their careers. As you get more and more established in your career, the jobs for someone of your level are less and harder to find.

While I keep in contact with most people I’ve worked with in the past, I’ve never used them for a job. I still just go through LinkedIn and normally get callbacks from every company I apply to. I think you can offset connections with big names on your resume.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#192

Post by SergeAx »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #177
SergeAx wrote: post #172

I believe that the best antidote for this utterly bullshit marxist propaganda is ESR[0]'s essay "Why hackers should eject SWJs". Please take time to read this (and, if you like it, other his essays): http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918 [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond

Written in 2015, with ESR's typical naive-utopian ideas about "hacker culture". The whole point of TFA is that the corporations that employ the people who, at this point, make up "hacker culture" have shown their hand, and it looks very different when you can see the cards instead of the backs of their hand. But also, the "SWJs" that ESR is talking about have almost nothing to do with the class warfare described in T…

"Naive-utopian hacker culture" gave us approximately everything we are building upon right now. Can't tell the same about SJWs. And yes, they are very much the same as those who call to class warfare and unionizing. Those are people who interested in shifting the power from the people who actually build things to those who will dictate them what to do and what not to do.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#193

Post by SergeAx »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #185
SergeAx wrote: post #172

I believe that the best antidote for this utterly bullshit marxist propaganda is ESR[0]'s essay "Why hackers should eject SWJs". Please take time to read this (and, if you like it, other his essays): http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918 [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond

I truly cannot see the connection between ESR's criticisms in that essay, and the subject matter of the OP article. Can you you please add some clarifying context?

Let me just quote it for you: " If we fall away from meritocracy – if we allow the SJWs to remake us as they wish, into a hell-pit of competitive grievance-mongering and political favoritism for the designated victim group of the week – we will betray not only what is best in our own traditions but the entire civilization that we serve". s/SJWs/Marxists/

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#194

Post by jjj123 »

xg15 wrote: post #139
neilv wrote: post #39

> Engineering culture encourages workers to collectively improve the company’s effectiveness. It encourages them to share knowledge with one another. To train each other. To build tools for one another. To bring new workers up to speed, and review each other’s work. To speed the company up. To seek out weaknesses in the company and fix them. / Engineers do this while they’re doing their actual job, the one the compan…

Found that part odd as well. I think this would be the first labor movement I ever heard about that argues for less solidarity with your fellow workers. Protip: Organising collective action will become impossible if everyone hates each other and keeps information from each other for fear of their own job security. That will help capital in the end.

Your comment helped me put words to my feelings about this article, thank you.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#195

Post by jojobas »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #182
jojobas wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>is inherently adversarial Until they invented stock options and started handing them out left right and centre.

This did not change the inherently adversarial nature. It just obscured it by adding a veneer of "see? our interests are the same as your interests!", despite this being true of just one (small) aspect of the union of all interests.

Well then any kind of trade is adversarial as it's beneficial to defraud your trade partners.

Something something prisoner's dilemma Nash equilibrium tit for tat.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#196

Post by wpwpwpw »

etothepii wrote: post #21

The problem with this article is that one does not need capital to start a tech company. This very website, sneered at in the article, is littered with examples of people who have built something at the side. I'm not sure knowledge workers can make the same complaints about class struggle that mechanical labourers can. We tend to get more valuable with age and experience.

depending on the scale of what you want to do, you might not need to have a lot of capital to get some online service up and running. however, you might find it difficult to have access to the same advertisement resources, you can be cloned right away, you can be blackmail-bought, you may find limitations put in place by hardware makers or by the ecosystem owners and you might have to share your revenues with those guys. so, although you can start with nothing, others start with a lot more - and capital reproduction and primitive accumulation keeps happening, whether you like it or not.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#197

Post by jongjong »

This is an interesting article. I hope that the capital class will realize that this article is basically a summary of what tech workers at big companies have already been doing over the last 5 years or so. Good developers who are passionate about their work have been getting absolutely crushed in this environment of "Don't try to clear technical debt. Don't hire good candidates who may replace you. Don't help train your co-workers, etc..." It's been impossible for me to get a job at Big Tech over the last 5 years for these very reasons. I think Capital should be respected. That said, over a decade of 0-percent interest monetary policy have really made a mess of things and made it very difficult to respect capital. The bad actors have already cashed out, bought assets and tarnished the image of capitalism.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#198

Post by kyletns »

dvt wrote: post #17

I mean, apart from the highfalutin class warfare nonsense and generally bad advice, this is a pretty decent post. I completely agree that over the past 30-40 years, companies have been pushing down engineering salaries. It's not really as incendiary as the author might have you believe, though. Programming, as a profession, has simply become more commoditized. It used to be kind of like being a brain surgeon, and it'…

Sure, but the point is that you have to fight now. Personally, I think a union would be a GREAT move, and I'm surprised he didn't stress that more.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#199

Post by flashgordon »

neilv wrote: post #39

> Engineering culture encourages workers to collectively improve the company’s effectiveness. It encourages them to share knowledge with one another. To train each other. To build tools for one another. To bring new workers up to speed, and review each other’s work. To speed the company up. To seek out weaknesses in the company and fix them. / Engineers do this while they’re doing their actual job, the one the compan…

Was just about to say this. This act of "withholding" just gets you demoted or pipped or relegated stagnant perf categories. Why do you think "leadership" principles exist? Not to make you a better leader, but to make you hot-swappable".

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#200

Post by vfclists »

Hacker News is so full of corporate shills it is laughable.

The guy is making a point here.

Do not add to your employer's assets unless you are expressly instructed to.

Quite simply, don't write any software to improve your employer's operations unless you are instructed by your boss to do so. Don't use your own initiative to do something unless it is acknowledged and approved by your superiors.

Factory workers don't go about fixing broken equipment on the assembly line. The equipment manufacturer's service employees are the ones who do it. Trust me, those guys won't touch any piece of equipment until they are instructed to do so in writing from the customer or from their managers.

Software and engineering guys are only to happy to write stuff for their employees and even sign agreements not to develop their own software even when it isn't done on company time.

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