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An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

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Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#111
post #76
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalist vs laborer is a true dichotomy, in that one cannot be both simultaneously within one context. But it is important to remember these are embodied roles and not character traits . I.e., a laborer becomes a consumer when they leave their place of employment to drive to the grocery store.

> Capitalist vs laborer is a true dichotomy, in that one cannot be both simultaneously within one context. Sure one can. One can be a "laborer" in the sense of spending one's working hours doing work for an employer instead of starting a startup or owning your own company, and also be a capitalist in that same context in the sense of using your skills as bargaining power with your employer to get the best return on t…

> and also be a capitalist in that same context in the sense of using your skills as bargaining power with your employer to get the best return on the capital you own

This is not what being a capitalist is, in the context you're using it. Capitalist vs laborer is basically someone who doesn't work, but their money does vs someone who has to work. That's it.

Gets fuzzy when you start adding a 3rd group of people in there, the people who have to work (i.e. they don't have enough capital to generate the kind of income that puts them in the don't have to work crowd) but identity with the capitalists. They see themselves as removed from "laborers" and strive to be in the capitalist class, dress like them, act like them, talk like them. Marx would call them the petite bourgeoisie.

I understand what you're trying to explain, thinking about individual capital ownership or even using your skills as capital... but that just isn't what it is. Your skills only have value if you're using them. To labor and create things of value.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#112
To the owner class and their handmaidens, all workers are just expenses to be minimized in a spreadsheet. A tech worker is the same to them as the plumber who fixed their toilet last week. The plumber doesn't imagine himself to be the next Elon Musk (if not for a sufficiently lucky break), though.

Tech workers are prone to giving away free labor and the author's "advice" illustrates one example (things which are "part of the job" but really separate from the core of The Machine). Continuing the analogy: when you hire a plumber to fix your toilet, he doesn't repipe the rest of your house or do your laundry unless you pay him specifically to do those things. Your relationship is transactional and without loyalty on either side. Just like how most employers view their relationship with employees.

Many if not most tech workers suffer from misplaced loyalty towards their employers, whose owners will continue coordinating as a class, taking all they can, while workers remain distracted and divided.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#113
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do not help those who seek to devalue you Excellent statement. The rest only applies if you can confirm that your company is seeking to devalue you. That is becoming more common but I don’t think it’s universally true.

All companies seek to devalue their workers. It is the nature of the profit motive. The less a company can pay for labor, the more it reaps as profit.

[deleted]

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#114
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In competition" is a fundamental misunderstanding of the interests at play. It's adversarial whether you integrate that understanding into your actions or not. And acknowledging the adversarial nature of workers and owners doesn't mean you have to be nasty to anyone on an interpersonal level.

Some aspects are adversarial, some aspects aren't. How much compensation I get is adversarial. How much documentation I write or how many internal tools I develop isn't adversarial, not even if you put la liberté guidant le peuple above the fold.

Exactly. The company (owners plus workers) getting a big pot of money is not adversarial, it's cooperative. Dividing the pot of money is where it gets adversarial. But spend all your time focusing on how to divide the pot always (at least in the long run) means the whole group loses out on the big pot of money.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#115
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capitalist vs laborer is a true dichotomy, in that one cannot be both simultaneously within one context. Sure one can. One can be a "laborer" in the sense of spending one's working hours doing work for an employer instead of starting a startup or owning your own company, and also be a capitalist in that same context in the sense of using your skills as bargaining power with your employer to get the best return on t…

> and also be a capitalist in that same context in the sense of using your skills as bargaining power with your employer to get the best return on the capital you own This is not what being a capitalist is, in the context you're using it. Capitalist vs laborer is basically someone who doesn't work, but their money does vs someone who has to work. That's it. Gets fuzzy when you start adding a 3rd group of people in th…

I believe the usual usage is:

capitalist (noun): filthy rich monopoly man

capitalist (adj.): pro capitalism

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#116
post #39

> Engineering culture encourages workers to collectively improve the company’s effectiveness. It encourages them to share knowledge with one another. To train each other. To build tools for one another. To bring new workers up to speed, and review each other’s work. To speed the company up. To seek out weaknesses in the company and fix them. / Engineers do this while they’re doing their actual job, the one the compan…

> Process improvement: Is this your job? Then no.

This remark from TFA at least implies when it "is" part of your job, go for it.

Perhaps you have rejected, or simply not engaged with, the "call" to recognize class warfare, however, or if I can be silly I'll call you a "capital sympathizer". From the frame of recognizing workers vs capitalists, you can't just say write off being exploited as "well you were paid to be exploited" without coming down hard on the "sympathizer" side.

One of the points I assume the author was making is that much of this isn't your actual job, and voluntarily performing work that ultimately costs you is exploitative and adversarial and, well, stupid. Even if you're paid to do it.

About 20 years ago my employer informed the entire company that we would be working December and January without pay and if we didn't like it we would be "laid off" (much of that work would be spent training team members of an offshore/outsourcing firm). State labor law disagreed with them regarding work without compensation so they were forced to pay "minimum wage" (for software developers and DBAs!). You can "well that's your job" all day long, and you're technically correct, but you're ...wrong.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#117

I don't live in NY or Seattle. The tech sector is much smaller where I am. I've never seen it be advantageous to treat other people as someone I'm in competition with. I've been laid off. Yeah it sucks, but no job is forever, and being nice to people means I get to sleep at night. I've also never seen anyone who can't be replaced. Time and time again something wasn't documented, and other devs/dbas/admins stepped in…

> treat other people as someone I'm in competition with

Your coworkers are not your adversaries, your employer is. When the going's good, each side is generous. When your employer withdraws their generosity, it pays to think twice whether your continued generosity works in your interest, and more broadly in the interest of the industry, and society. The limit being a grueling, subpar environment where underpaid and overworked employees find solace in comradery.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#119

Yes, I agree 100%. Do not help those who seek to devalue you. Extract as much value for as little work as possible. The people who run these companies are not your friends and they’re not your family, take advantage of them at every opportunity you can. Don’t care if the company fails, don’t pay any mind to burning bridges, don’t bother giving two weeks, and certainly don’t do anything more than the bare minimum. All…

My takeaway from what you said is that the employee-company relationship is inherently adversarial to a degree and to not forget that. In general, I wholeheartedly agree.

However,

> don’t pay any mind to burning bridges

not all bridges should be burned. If you mean the bridge between you and a company, yes, said bridges should not be treated as anything more than a rope bridge over a canyon. I would limit burning bridges between individuals because the relationships you create are more important than just about everything else you will do on the job. Unless I really hated my boss or supervisor, I would not be so quick to burn that level of bridges.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not nice to the other workers — that's not very good class solidarity.

The article was missing the words "together" and "solidarity". It seemed to be a product of a culture of extreme individualism.

Yeah. "I, the individual, am going to do my best to make sure that I get mine, even if it harms the company and my coworkers". That's not "class warfare". That's narcissism.
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