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Tech's Elite Hates Labor

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Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#331

Post by throw93 »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #325
throw93 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who will enforce that? The policies are made by companies themselves and they can change them whenever/however they want with no employee welfare in mind. We as individual employees don't have any power influencing or enforcing those policies. The idea behind organized workforce is to balance the power dynamic between employer and employees. It's harder for employer to ignore the demands of an organized workforce tha…

The employer can't unilaterally change the terms written in the offer letter. That would be clear breach of contract. Any state or federal court in the US can enforce this. I'm not sure how it works in other countries.

Again, which entity forces the employer to write these terms in the offer letter in the first place? Govt or courts can't. If you as the person interviewing asks for these terms, employer can just say no and move on to next person in queue.

In other countries the notice periods are written in law. But then again, do we really want to wait(& trust) for the govt which is heavily lobbied by FAANG to legislate this? Isn't it more efficient to organize and demand your terms from the employer.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#332

Post by ch4s3 »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #284
ch4s3 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but ultimately the reign of terror killed more Sans-culottes than nobles which is the part people often leave out.

Is that based on absolute number or percentage?

It's impossible to really know, the official number of death sentences was only around 16k, but another 10k died in prison. However out in the departments there was a lot of random killing like in the drownings in Nantes. At various points anyone accused by anyone of selling anything at an unfair price was executed, and it was often even more arbitrary. This chaos caused a lot of poor people to simply stare to death which lead to Paris sending out "revolutionary armies" to "requisition" grain which resulted in a lot of farmers being summarily killed. Keeping score on a class basis is beside the point and just gross.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#333

Post by taylodl »

The Oligarchs Hate Labor

There. Fixed the headline for you. You might also note the oligarchs, and the aristocracy before them, have always loathed the common man and thought themselves superior. Our supposed meritocracy have just made matters worse.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#334

Post by bdcravens »

vkou wrote: post #288
bdcravens wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same way SWEs should have changed their tune when faced with outsourcing: Expand your skillset to ensure you're more than just an expensive commodity.

1. Why do you think the writers won't be able to do the same? They are writers, they aren't idiots. 2. That's great advice for buggy horses who want to win the game of musical chairs, but when the number of jobs for SWEs will drop to ~200,000 in the country, what are the other million going to be doing?

> Why do you think the writers won't be able to do the same? They are writers, they aren't idiots.

Didn't say they were. Was only addressing the comment about SWEs.

> when the number of jobs for SWEs will drop to ~200,000 in the country, what are the other million going to be doing

What they did after the dotcom crash - become the upper 15-20%, shift to another job in tech (project management, devops, etc) or switch entirely to another job like car sales, accounting, or greeting customers at Walmart.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#335

Post by ch4s3 »

sofixa wrote: post #209
ch4s3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I see anything in French history I'd particularly want to emulate. The story of the French Revolution which I assume you're referring to is one of senseless barbarism and the old elites ending up back on top at the end anyway. The drownings at Nantes are among the most awful things to happen in Europe prior to WWII. As for modern France and their propensity for rioting over minor labor disputes, who want…

> The story of the French Revolution which I assume you're referring to is one of senseless barbarism and the old elites ending up back on top at the end anyway. Some parts of the old elites ended up kind of on top at the end anyway, however in a drastically different situation - citizens had rights and power at the top came from below, not above (divine right was no longer a thing). So massive difference regardless…

Sure, but they could have gotten that without all of the wars, reign of terror, and general horribleness of the revolution.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#336

Post by ch4s3 »

0x457 wrote: post #148
ch4s3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I see anything in French history I'd particularly want to emulate. The story of the French Revolution which I assume you're referring to is one of senseless barbarism and the old elites ending up back on top at the end anyway. The drownings at Nantes are among the most awful things to happen in Europe prior to WWII. As for modern France and their propensity for rioting over minor labor disputes, who want…

> As for modern France and their propensity for rioting over minor labor disputes, who wants that either? well, that's the only way to deliver the message, so yeah, I want that.

Really? The end result in France is that the young are chronically unemployed to the tune of 20% and will never have the luxury of early retirement, all so the retirement age won't be raised now.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#337

Post by Apocryphon »

Aunche wrote: post #118
thebradbain wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I agree! I think the guilds are great to its membership in general, but breaking in is itself a battle. Tech doesn’t need to copy Hollywood exactly (nor should it), but there’s a lot that can be learned from it.

Unions aren't a hack that let you subvert supply and demand. The "bad" parts of unions are what give it power. Without excluding an out-group, you're left with a useless bureaucracy. For Hollywood, I think this is a necessary "evil" because the market rate for creative jobs is likely close to working making $0 for 80 hour work weeks. However, this isn't the same for tech.

> Unions aren't a hack that let you subvert supply and demand. The "bad" parts of unions are what give it power. Without excluding an out-group, you're left with a useless bureaucracy.

So much of tech in the past few decades have been about hacking regulation. Why is it when it comes to labor power, it's suddenly an impossibility?

> However, this isn't the same for tech.

Video games are notoriously underpaid and overworked, due to it being a body pit for the passionate. But that's a specific tech niche, sure.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#338

Post by ryandrake »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #304
ryandrake wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way it's grown faster. A "spoiled" tech worker who makes even as much as $300K has a lot more in common with a blue collar worker making $30K than he has with an executive making $300M. We're talking 3 orders of magnitude vs. 1. That executive has accumulated generational wealth after working one month. Their lifestyle is outrageously bananas-different than even the highest-paid software developer. We're talking d…

We're talking about the cultural gap here. Not the money gap.

I'm a spoiled tech worker, and I feel I have much more in common culturally with a less well-off guy who works on their own car, shops for their own groceries, and carefully budgets every dollar they earn so their checks don't bounce (which I do, too). More culturally than I have in common with someone who has three nannies for their kids, summers in the Hamptons, takes Luge lessons in the Alps, and is currently deciding whether to buy a fifth home in New Zealand or bankroll their own B-movie.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#339

Post by Apocryphon »

odiroot wrote: post #328
treis wrote: post #15

Sometimes I can't even begin to comprehend the POVs I read on the internet. The FAANGs and adjacent companies treat their workers better than pretty much any other company in the world. The idea that workers there are somehow this abused underclass is ridiculous.

Apparently Google has fired all the massage therapists. The working conditions are getting abysmal!

For those massage therapists who are now jobless, surely.

Re: Tech's Elite Hates Labor

#340

Post by bdcravens »

vintermann wrote: post #54
bdcravens wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a popular take, but a correct one. A correct Javascript class runs the same whether it was written for $5/hr or $150/hr. Obviously there are certain advantages of efficiency and communication, but over time those advantages erode, especially with increased WFH and the like.

"A correct JavaScript class", hah. Good luck if you think that's what it's about, chief.

I don't; I've been a developer since 1999. Those who have remained employed through the same downturns know this as well. However, there are plenty of developers whose jobs consist of 90-95% of work that a remote resource could easily do, and that 5-10% could be turned over to a short-term contractor (or consolidated). If a company saves 75%, 50% inefficiency is still a net positive.

Hint: if someone describe themselves as "{some single language} Developer", they should always be concerned. Doubly so if they came out of a cookie cutter bootcamp.

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