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Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

economist.com

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Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#241

Post by wonderwonder »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #234
Dig1t wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in FAANG, and they just this year added a new category to yearly performance reviews for inclusion and diversity. So now our promotions and raises are tied not only to the quality of code we write and how much we help our team's productivity, but also to how much we helped non-white people get hired on the team. I also have an inclusion training every 6 months that sounds very similar to yours.

They tell you that if you're being berated by an upset minority colleague you should "sit there in {your} shame"?

You are going to focus on whether or not his trainings use the exact terminology as mine when all he said was "similar" and just skip over " how much we helped non-white people get hired on the team"? This is outright racial discrimination and should be illegal. His complaint is even more egregious than mine.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#242

Post by goodSteveramos »

Manuel_D wrote: post #76
ergonaught wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was asked to describe the diversity within my private life during a job interview last year. It was a relatively lower end position, not even vaguely academic, and neither the role nor the company have any particular applicability to "diversity".

Is it illegal to lie on these sorts of questions? Like, you could say you're gay, married to an indigenous trans man raising 3 URM children you've adopted. All of these things are illegal to use in hiring decisions, so the veracity of your answers would only matter if the company was engaged in unlawful hiring practices.

yes. Its illegal racial discrimination. If white people actually called the bluff of civil rights by suing on these grounds the ruling class would be forced to either explicitly add anti-white discrimination to the law or stop their anti-white policies.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#243

Post by wonderwonder »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #142
wonderwonder wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When forced to choose between the effects of Gerrymandering vs my kids being penalized for the rest of their lives for being white then I am forced to choose Gerrymandering every time and I hate that this is the choice I'm presented with. I'm not a fan of Desantis at all but I am even less of a fan of this woke (I hate using the term, it sounds like a caricature) movement. My kids happen to be white, heterosexual mal…

Forced to huh? https://thenib.com/fault-right/

This is the exact thing I am talking about. It takes all of the real concerns that people who voted for Trump have and resorts to calling them Nazis and you post it as a witty response. I did not vote for Trump I very much dislike him on a personal and political level. I never at any time discounted the reasons that people did vote for him though because they are my fellow citizens and people that I am friends with and form a community with. Many of them are very intelligent people. To discount the concerns of others and just blatantly call 50% of the countries population Nazis is childish and shows a lack of seriousness. Grow up, you will find that most people you see as enemies have a lot of the same concerns and values that you do.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#244

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

wonderwonder wrote: post #241
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tell you that if you're being berated by an upset minority colleague you should "sit there in {your} shame"?

You are going to focus on whether or not his trainings use the exact terminology as mine when all he said was "similar" and just skip over " how much we helped non-white people get hired on the team"? This is outright racial discrimination and should be illegal. His complaint is even more egregious than mine.

Well yes friend, because as presented the accusations seem almost farcical, and to me seem like the result of some misunderstanding, intentional or not. I'm trying to focus on a single topic instead of looking for ways to get further incensed.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#245

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

fallingknife wrote: post #37
efficax wrote: post #26

DEI statements are just one factor in the hiring process for faculty. Generally they'll get scored by the hiring committee on some numeric scale (like everything else in the application). A low DEI score might not tank your application if you're in a field where everyone else has a low DEI score, or if you are absolutely outstanding in your field but have middling DEI because you're a white, male scientist from an af…

If you are absolutely outstanding in your field you should always prevail. Also, if you didn't know, hiring candidates based on race is explicitly forbidden by federal law (Title VII Civil Rights Act of 1964). The fuss is absolutely not overblown.

I would argue you shouldn’t always prevail in your field if your academics are outstanding. For example consider the paper-approval scandal in computer science a few years ago, leading to the suicide of a phd student. All those professors involved are outstanding on paper, and I don’t think any of them should prevail. Similarly if an otherwise outstanding academic drives a student to suicide they need to gtfo academia.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#246

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

lovecg wrote: post #195

This is your regular reminder that the front pages for VLDB and SIGMOD conferences have more space dedicated to their stance against racism than to less important things like databases. https://www.vldb.org/ https://sigmod.org/

Idk if this is fair. Both of the anti racist stances include list format, which by default takes up way more space than the multi-paragraph explainations of who they are and what they do. The multi-paragraph introduction to the organizations are also the very first thing on the page. I don’t think they’re comparable…

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#247

Post by giraffe_lady »

wonderwonder wrote: post #243
giraffe_lady wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced to huh? https://thenib.com/fault-right/

This is the exact thing I am talking about. It takes all of the real concerns that people who voted for Trump have and resorts to calling them Nazis and you post it as a witty response. I did not vote for Trump I very much dislike him on a personal and political level. I never at any time discounted the reasons that people did vote for him though because they are my fellow citizens and people that I am friends with a…

You voted for a straightforwardly fascist governor for obliquely fascist reasons and then tried to abdicate moral responsibility based on the actions of other people.

Fear your fears about the future and your children; we all do. And if those fears lead you to endorse and support a white nationalist movement, own your actions. No one forced you to do that.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#248

Post by freejazz »

xyzzyz wrote: post #175
jrm4 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop. There is a universe of difference between curating selections for children's and/or adult libraries, and a government official stepping in to control and/or ban books. The former is part of the job, the latter is overreach.

Those two are literally the same thing. The “banning books” you’re talking about is literally the state curating the selection of children books in public libraries. Florida is not actually banning sales of certain books, as it would be illegal for it to do it (except in some edge cases), all it’s doing is curating the selection of books in libraries. The critics call it “banning books” to confuse audience into think…

This is a completely disingenuous post.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#249

Post by bobleeswagger »

wonderwonder wrote: post #30

This is the sort of thing that confounds me. It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. It's the civil rights movement in reverse. It's already started bleeding into the workspace with mandatory training and verbiage that essentially says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anyth…

> It's already started bleeding into the workspace with mandatory training and verbiage that essentially says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anything they are right and you must meekly accept it and bow your head in shame.

This happened, exactly as you describe, before my eyes at a well known education startup in Denver 2 years ago. HR representatives publicly humiliated someone for defending protestors on January 6th. Their take was entirely in bounds and amounted to "I think we're talking past one another with the heightened rhetoric, we should have more compassion for other perspectives." They later were forced to publicly apologize for their "short-sighted comments" that "harmed BIPOCs." It was insane.

Looking back, that place was a leftist echo chamber like I have never seen, and hope to never see again. Really sucks how much politics is still driving a "data-driven" world.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#250

Post by freejazz »

goodSteveramos wrote: post #242
Manuel_D wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it illegal to lie on these sorts of questions? Like, you could say you're gay, married to an indigenous trans man raising 3 URM children you've adopted. All of these things are illegal to use in hiring decisions, so the veracity of your answers would only matter if the company was engaged in unlawful hiring practices.

yes. Its illegal racial discrimination. If white people actually called the bluff of civil rights by suing on these grounds the ruling class would be forced to either explicitly add anti-white discrimination to the law or stop their anti-white policies.

Sovereign-man levels of understanding of the US legal system and governmental processes here
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